Should the wife submit?
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19-11-2013, 02:05 PM
RE: Should the wife submit?
(19-11-2013 01:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 01:45 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Sure you can.

No, really, you can't. Hospitals have greater restrictions on visitors than on spouses.

I've never had a problem.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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19-11-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: Should the wife submit?
(19-11-2013 02:05 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 01:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, really, you can't. Hospitals have greater restrictions on visitors than on spouses.

I've never had a problem.

The restrictions aren't visible to the casual visitor - normal hours, short visits.

It's when the shit gets serious that the restrictions become visible.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-11-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: Should the wife submit?
(19-11-2013 01:52 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 01:39 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Agreed, but the "legal reasons" are there artificially.

As a social construct, they are by definition artificial.


Yes.
Quote:
(19-11-2013 01:39 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Yes, you can get your love on your insurance if you marry, but why the fuck is it set up that way?

Because most people would hardly be bothered (and why should they be?) to draw up individualised legal contracts...

So, everyone who can be bothered to draw up whatever necessary contracts individually (putting someone on your insurance is easy, BTW) has to suffer because (you claim) most can't?


(19-11-2013 01:39 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I'm not going to get married because of artificial legal advantages that are tied to it, that's the wrong reason to get married, IMO.

I should hardly think anyone is going around asking strangers to marry for tax purposes alone. Wink[/quote]

Strawman much?

Quote:For the most part the provisions are things you'd probably want anyway, if you're committing to a long-term relationship with another person.

Not really, no.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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19-11-2013, 02:18 PM
RE: Should the wife submit?
(19-11-2013 02:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 02:05 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I've never had a problem.

The restrictions aren't visible to the casual visitor - normal hours, short visits.

It's when the shit gets serious that the restrictions become visible.

Must depend on the hospital.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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19-11-2013, 02:22 PM
RE: Should the wife submit?
(19-11-2013 02:02 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(18-11-2013 12:28 PM)Dom Wrote:  You are wrong.

If I had not been married to my husband, I would not have been granted unlimited visitation in the hospital when he was fighting for his life. I would not have been consulted regarding decisions when he was unable to make them. I would have been allowed in for two hours a day, on days when he was not in ICU. He was in ICU off and on for 3 weeks. As his wife, I spent all day every day with him for 6 weeks. I was able to push for his release from the hospital. I was able to have him released into my care. None of this would have been possible had we not been married.

If I had not been married to my husband, I would still fight for access to bank accounts, car titles, real estate titles and all that crap that happens when someone dies. And that is not the time to be bogged down with stupid bureaucracy. Not to mention the pension I would not have gotten, the social security benefits I would not have gotten, the lawyer I would have had to hire and whatnot.

And then there are the tax benefits. Wait til you make money, and you'll rethink.

Every bit of that is artificial bullshit that has been injected into society **to make marriage as obligatory as possible**.



Quote:I get where you are coming from, I thought the same when I was your age. Live a while longer, and life's unpleasant possibilities become more real, and you'll do the rational thing.

The RATIONAL thing, really? Doing what you don't believe in so you can get the carrot on the stick? I don't call that "rational" at all.

Quote:Why do you think gays pushed so hard to be able to marry? Because it has many benefits that life partners are able to share, that's why.

Yes, they want the benefits that are ***artificially*** withheld from them because they aren't married.

You seem to have a lot of anger regarding marriage.

Benefits are not withheld because you're not married - that's not the way it works.

Marriage benefits are simply a reflection of society and of the propensity for social engineering inherent in legislation. There are many examples such as sin taxes, regulation of gambling, regulation of prostitution, capital gains taxes, and on and on.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-11-2013, 02:32 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2013 02:36 PM by Ohio Sky.)
RE: Should the wife submit?
http://www.freedomtomarry.org/pages/from...an-wolfson

Here's a nice guide to the vast legal differences between marriage and legal partnerships. I can also add that (at least in California) an unmarried partner has zero say in funeral arrangements for their partner. If the family of the deceased objected to their relationship, they can deny the surviving partner the ability to make funeral arrangements according to their loved ones wishes. They can deny them the ability to see them and say goodbye. Same goes for visitors in hospital if the patient is unconscious. Same goes for estate. Domestic partnership doesn't protect any of this. You have to have separate legally drafted and notorized papers for each one of these situations, and many others. Arbitrary? Absolutely. It's silly. But these things exist nonetheless.

As to the OP, I don't believe a wife should be made to serve and submit. Most relationships have a balance of personalities where one partner is more assertive or dominant and the other more submissive. It's often the woman who falls into the latter role because that's the way society has taught us to be. But it's happening the other way around with increasing regularity. I'm the alpha in my household. My boyfriend is a manager at a large company but has had to train himself into the leadership position. It's not natural for him and he lets it go as soon as he clocks off. When he gets home, he gets me a beer andmakes me dinner and does my laundry. I think he enjoys the mindlessness of being given tasks after a day of managing and decision-making. I, on the other hand, have gotten quite tired of being treated as though I should be a meek and submissive woman and balk at anyone who tries to give me orders. Too much, really. So that's just not how my relationship works. We're also both atheists so the biblical idea of marriage is quite obnoxious and meaningless to us.

So the answer? If a woman has a submissive nature and wants to please her man, then she should submit. Not because the bible or society or her husband tell her to, but because she wants to. If the man wants to submit, he should, despite what society and religion tell him about being a 'real man.'

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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