Should we simplify or is it too late?
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15-02-2011, 02:01 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
(15-02-2011 01:50 AM)No J. Wrote:  money tree.
????
[Image: the-money-tree1.jpg]

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15-02-2011, 02:03 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
(15-02-2011 02:01 AM)The_observer Wrote:  
(15-02-2011 01:50 AM)No J. Wrote:  money tree.
????

A lucrative source of income or profit.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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15-02-2011, 02:57 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
(15-02-2011 02:03 AM)No J. Wrote:  
(15-02-2011 02:01 AM)The_observer Wrote:  
(15-02-2011 01:50 AM)No J. Wrote:  money tree.
????
A lucrative source of income or profit.
Oh, good... I thought all lawers where some kind of eco-macho's
*hey babe... wanna see my huge money tree* Smile

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15-02-2011, 06:30 AM
 
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
(14-02-2011 08:12 PM)BnW Wrote:  I think I'm going to be the voice of reason here and say that we should not be bashing on lawyers, we should be thanking them and revering them!

Lawyers are our friends and it is to our collective benefit that these find people toil away on obscure details.

So, no more lawyer bashing.

First of all thanks for all the insight. I pretty much knew the basic direction it would go hence my parting line. OK as for Lawyers and Law in general, I think there is a place without a doubt. Criminals need tried, and defended, contracts need to written, etc... The thing I hate is that through lawyers unnecessarily nibbling at minutia and very small loop holes for their own gain. Contracts and laws continue to get more and more convoluted. Is paragraph after paragraph of lawyer speak really necessary in every contract? Well yes, the reason why is other lawyers! Generally contracting parties know exactly what they are agreeing too. However because of Lawyer speak how many times has one party gotten butt hurt over something and the answer should be "well you signed the contract" instead it comes down to some wishy washy Lawyer speak in section 2 subsection 3c paragraph 5. I also hope we can all agree that personal damage law has gotten RIDICULOUS! So while lawyers are necessary, they are not nearly as necessary as they are prevalent, and they've created an ugly 'industry' to feed their growing population.
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15-02-2011, 06:32 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Well , since we're on the subject of making jokes :
[Image: demotivational-posters-tax-money.jpg]

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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15-02-2011, 06:42 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Some serious responses to this.

First, yes, I am a lawyer (the first step is admitting you have a problem, right?).

I absolutely agree that lawyers make certain things a lot worse and often for their own gain. Where those lines are is probably a matter of debate. I think there are some obvious ones: divorce lawyers are an easy target. Anyone (at least in the states) who's either gone through a divorce or knows someone who has will tell you the the goal of the lawyers seems to be to bleed both sides dry. I have a friend who almost went bankrupt during his divorce due to the legal fees (and both he and his ex were lawyers). I also think that class action lawyers are not doing society any great favors either, and class action law suits have become an industry in and of itself. Personal injury cases have also gotten to be a little ridiculous, but I also think that a lot of the hype on that has been overblown by insurance companies. Medical malpractice is definitely an issue, that I agree with, but I think when ordinary Americans scream about "tort reform", they don't really understand what they are being asked to give up. And, a lot of the more infamous cases are either not true or only partly true. If people knew the actual facts they may be a lot more sympathetic to the plaintiffs.

Some of the other things are not as clear. Contracts can probably be simplified but contracts are generally not written to screw the other side but to protect your side. And, while both parties generally know what they are agreeing to, the devil is always in the details. I worked on a deal last year that we negotiated over a period of about 5 months. As soon as it was signed we found a problem where what we believed we were charging and what the customer thought they were paying did not match up and the contract was a bit ambiguous on the point. We had to negotiate an agreement but you would be amazed at how often parties think they agree and actually do not. The other point I'll make on this is something an old boss used to say to me: no one ever looks at the contract when the relationship is going well, it only gets taken off the shelf when something goes wrong and it damn well better protect you when that happens."

On criminal law, all I'll say is given the power of the state, and that has grown, I've no problem with defense lawyers doing whatever they can to force the state to prove their case beyond all reasonable doubt. I believe in the old adage that it's better for ten guilty people to go free then one innocent man to be convicted.

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15-02-2011, 10:19 AM
 
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
All good points I admit. Some of my POV comes from an overwhelming sense of self-responsibility that I have. I see many more things as black and white than the average person who sees grey. For instance I'm going to have a hip replacement in the next five years that is pretty much a fact. I accept that when that surgery happens there is a chance that an otherwise top notch surgeon will maim me, or an otherwise very responsible anestesiologist will kill me. If either of those things happened I would hope there would be an investigation, and I would hope I (or my survivors) would be fairly compensated. I would not expect multi-millions if it was simple error. Many may think me cuckoo, but I took that that risk eyes wide open. I hear daily about debt reduction lawyers and I cringe. Did you amass the debt? Yes. THEN YOU PAY IT BACK ALL OF IT! I don't care what the 'circumstances' are black and white. However I will admit just like with Christians probably the minority is giving the majority a black eye. However unlike Christians law is more useful than religion LOL.
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15-02-2011, 11:57 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Not to piss on your parade Dregs , but seeing the world in absolute black and white is a symptom of mental disorders - schizoidism if I remember correctly.(just to bee perfectly clear I'm not accusing you of it , I'm just informing you of it)
It's hard to see the world in the multiple shades of grey , it's painful and uncomfortable especially for most of us in the western world who see the world in a good/evil dichotomy.
I've made this mistake multiple times myself but someone has always corrected me - thankfully.
I recommend a book on the subject :
"Thick Face, Black Heart: The Warrior Philosophy for Conquering the Challenges of Business and Life" by Chin Ning Chu.
It's sometimes annoying to listen to every group and individual opinion out there and not take an opposing view point to an entire group , we all do it , just don't do it on purpose.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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15-02-2011, 01:49 PM
 
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Maybe my choice of wording was bad there (actually quite bad). I was really trying to say that I don't like this whoa is me attitude that prevails today. Every direction I turn its "Oh I didn't get the job, RACISM, AGEISM, SEXISM" maybe someone was better than you? Now those three things exist and you can't dimiss them, but there's a slew of lawyers out there that will find some kind of ISM for you so that you get your suffering paid for. IMO these lawyers dilute the impact of true ISM cases. Same with malpractice, if it doesn't go 100% your way $$$. Some things are just life! You don't deserve wealth and happiness just because you were born. Some people work their ass off for every penny and some have millions of pennies just handed to them that's life its not fair. Everyone wants there's though and who am I hurting that company had billions of $. I don't completely blame lawyers BTW they just catalyze the situation. I see it with my kids in school, everyone walks on eggshells because if they look at little Tommy the wrong way mom and dad will be all over their asses for mistreating their angel, whatever! It's rarely black and white I know that, but the grey area is now a planet!
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15-02-2011, 01:50 PM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Is your problem with complexity mostly around law Dregs, or do you see it as a problem in general?

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