Should we simplify or is it too late?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-02-2011, 11:35 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
You won't have to work very hard to convince me the government is more likely to break what is fixed then fix what is broken.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-02-2011, 12:16 PM
 
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
(19-02-2011 11:35 AM)BnW Wrote:  You won't have to work very hard to convince me the government is more likely to break what is fixed then fix what is broken.

Hahaha yeah not exactly an unpopular position. I guess I was thinking of things that are considered wonderful programs like Welfare, and Unemployment are truly not all that great. Now I'm not one of these wipe everything off the books people, let em all fend for themselves! No. I actually do think social programs are a necessity mainly because everything is not Black and white. However the government has basic created a society of people that looks up at them with puppy dog eyes and says "take care of me", and if they're not cared for then "THROW THE BUMS OUT!" Too many people don't own houses, Oh My lets help them! Too many unemployed, lets borrow money to make some temporary jobs! Ut Oh remember the first thing and then that second thing well now there's to many foreclosures! OK, ok I got this one ummm let's make law so there are less foreclosures!

Um if you see and actual answers up there anywhere please let me know, thanks.
Quote this message in a reply
19-02-2011, 03:33 PM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
I think welfare is an absolute joke and it's the essence of racism, best described by GW Bush (in one of his few lucid moments) as "the soft bigotry of low expectations". I think he was absolutely right about that.

Unemployment, on the other hand, I'm a lot less bothered by. Yes, there are some problems with it but when you look at the amount of corporate welfare in this country it is a little difficult for me to get too irate over giving money to unemployed people. There was also a study released in the late fall that concluded that unemployment benefits actually slowed economic decline and helped economies recover faster.

If you're interested (and even if you're not), here is a link to the study.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-02-2011, 04:00 PM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
I think the US government is a lot different than politics I'm used to in Europe.


How is unemployment different than welfare ? I don't get your system that well.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-02-2011, 04:29 PM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Unemployment is money that you're given while unemployed for going and applying at so many places a week, welfare is a check that the government gives you to help you make dues whether working or not depending on circumstances generally for single moms. I get food stamps, that's plenty for me.

If you're unaware food stamps is an old term since now it's a food card. You can only use it for buying groceries, so it's a pretty controlled amount. Currently if you have no income it's not hard at all to get $200 a month in food stamps, thanks to an Obama legislation which made it easier and extended the amount of time you can be on them without any sign of economic improvement.

So basically unemployment is being paid to look for a job, and welfare is being given money because the government agrees you need it.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-02-2011, 04:45 PM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Lilith Pride Wrote:So basically unemployment is being paid to look for a job, and welfare is being given money because the government agrees you need it.
Even if that's the definition, I don't get how
BnW Wrote:welfare is an absolute joke and it's the essence of racism
. Could you continue the thought?

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-02-2011, 11:26 PM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2011 11:37 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Welfare is just the idea that for some people it's impossible to make enough money particularly single mothers. So they have a set amount that they just give them no matter what to ensure the child's safety. Some women have babies to get more welfare and barely care for the children. I didn't say welfare makes any sense.

But yeah, welfare was started as a way to help the large masses of unemployed people who live in cities, but can't find jobs. Many of the large cities have people commuting 3 hours to reach them for work, which isn't that unusual, but often there aren't many jobs for the people who actually live in the area. Welfare is just stating there's no reason you'll do any better so this will keep you alive. A lot of the bigotry seeps in because people who do work see the majority of black welfare recipients, and they get pissed and make racist comments.

Basically a lot of people get welfare and just choose to stay that way. Sometimes guys get women pregnant so that they'll get money, and then take the money. It's just a really insane idea.

The best reason for this system I can geuss, is the fact that they don't see making more jobs as very likely, so they just give pity money for people who are kind of doomed. Maybe it's a system to convince the middle class to distrust poor people? who knows.

But it's not like having no job means you get welfare. Plenty of people can't get welfare and are just homeless. For the amount of wealth and frivality the US shows it really doesn't do the job on helping poor people. Sure there are places with worser conditions, but usually the working class is also in bad conditions there.

As was stated by someone else, the poor are disregarded so often in the US that if a city has a vote to raise taxes that are to benefit the homeless or mass transit, the average person instantly disproves the waste of their money because they're sure it'll just be another failed plan that will end up nowhere with more taxes being paid.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-02-2011, 05:45 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Quote:Some women have babies to get more welfare and barely care for the children.
Some do, but is the percentage so high that it makes the whole system flawed?
Quote:But yeah, welfare was started as a way to help the large masses of unemployed people who live in cities, but can't find jobs. Many of the large cities have people commuting 3 hours to reach them for work, which isn't that unusual, but often there aren't many jobs for the people who actually live in the area. Welfare is just stating there's no reason you'll do any better so this will keep you alive. A lot of the bigotry seeps in because people who do work see the majority of black welfare recipients, and they get pissed and make racist comments.
So one's skin colour affects his/her chances of succesfully making a living?
The black welfare recipients aren't looking for a job/studying, but they still get money?
Or, the black welfare recipients are looking for jobs/studying, and they get money?
Quote:Basically a lot of people get welfare and just choose to stay that way.
They shouldn't be able to choose to stay that way. If they are looking for a job, they'll get money to live, but if they could get a job but don't take it, then they shouldn't get anything.
Quote:Sometimes guys get women pregnant so that they'll get money, and then take the money. It's just a really insane idea.
And when that happens, why doesn't the woman report to the institution, where they got the money from, that the guy is not using the money for the welfare of the baby? Or is there absolutely no control on the abetment?
_____________________________________________________

Sorry, I have no idea how stuff works in the US, so that explains my ignorance and sort of disqualifies me from talking about how stuff should work.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-02-2011, 08:50 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Kikko

Welfare kicked off in the 1960s as part of President Johnson's "War on Poverty". The concept was that you give people a helping hand and they would get back on their feet. That was the idea, at least. The reality has been vastly different.

What welfare has done is created an entire sub-class of people in the US who just live on the state generation after generation. Many, but certainly not all, of these people are minorities. Pretty much all of these people live in poverty, in neighborhoods with excessively high crime rates, high percentages of drug addiction, etc. The basic deal that the US government makes with these people is we say "we won't give you good schools, adequate police protection or any real jobs in your neighborhoods or any real way of bettering yourselves. Instead, we will give you a pittance of money, horrible living conditions, make you completely and totally dependent on us for your very survival, and then, to top it all off, we will blame you for the squalor in which you live". That's the reality of modern welfare.

I say it's the "essence or racism" because a lot of this is based on the belief that these people simply can't do any better for themselves and this is their pinnacle. We may not actively think it but we, as a society, absolutely treat poor blacks as if this is true. It's disgusting and it's become so ingrained in the black community that I think many of them now believe this, which is absolutely tragic. The real tragedy, though, is so many black leaders help perpetuate these problems.

There is a famous black actor in the US named Bill Cosby (you may have heard of him). Bill has taken a lot of heat from the black community the past 10 - 15 years because he has been saying that the black community needs to start being responsible for itself and putting some blame back where it belongs. His basic argument is that things are the way they are because the black community allows it to be this way. I think that is partly true, I think the other part of the story is that things are the way they are because the government treats these people like they can't do better.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-02-2011, 08:59 AM
RE: Should we simplify or is it too late?
Quote:The basic deal that the US government makes with these people is we say "we won't give you good schools, adequate police protection or any real jobs in your neighborhoods or any real way of bettering yourselves. Instead, we will give you a pittance of money, horrible living conditions, make you completely and totally dependent on us for your very survival, and then, to top it all off, we will blame you for the squalor in which you live". That's the reality of modern welfare.
That sucksSad, but I wouldn't call it welfare, perhaps pseudo-welfare. According to my word book, welfare means well-being, and that doesn't sound like it.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: