"Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
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05-09-2015, 04:58 PM
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 04:49 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(05-09-2015 04:05 PM)mordant Wrote:  At this point (approaching 20 years of unbelief) it would be well nigh impossible for me to fake praying no matter how accommodating I wanted to be. It's dishonest and fake. I would try, I suppose, but I almost think my attempt would be worse than nothing.

I guess that's the plus about being raised Catholic...no thought when it comes to prayer...just rote recitation.

Free form prayer mystified me when I moved to the south. I had never heard such things before...lots of 'Father Gods' and other key words and phrases like 'nourish my body'...blah, blah, blah. Although they were supposedly made up on the spot and heartfelt, after a while they even sounded scripted.




#sigh
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05-09-2015, 05:41 PM
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 03:14 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(05-09-2015 02:53 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Again, being thankful for something that is from God is not idol worship. Everything is from the One God. So what scripture are you referring to exactly? Most pastors would claim unification of peaceful religions under the One God is blasphemous as well. However, that just isn't the case.

But you weren't talking about being thankful for something earlier. You were talking about praying a Hindu prayer meant for a Hindu god and saying you could say it to your God. I mentioned one of God's fave parts of scripture earlier that refers to his disgust for idol worship(i.e. his Ten Commandments).
No, no, no, never meant to the imply praying any Hindi prayer. I specifically said to pray how you Personally feel right be it through whatever religion or manner as long as the message was good, thankful, not selfish, and under God. Praise isn't always synonymous with prayer, or worship. Thanks.
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05-09-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 04:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Your effort is what would be appreciated.
Heh. If only one's efforts were invariably registered as such ...

However, yes, I would certainly try. It'd be the right thing to do. I don't know what would scare me more, coming off as fake, or how easily it might come back to me after all these years.
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05-09-2015, 06:03 PM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2015 06:06 PM by mordant.)
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 04:49 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I guess that's the plus about being raised Catholic...no thought when it comes to prayer...just rote recitation.

Free form prayer mystified me when I moved to the south. I had never heard such things before...lots of 'Father Gods' and other key words and phrases like 'nourish my body'...blah, blah, blah. Although they were supposedly made up on the spot and heartfelt, after a while they even sounded scripted.
Yes the ritualistic stuff would be much easier to pull off. Maybe I should memorize a couple of those in case of need ;-)

But you are correct, even the free-form stuff becomes repetitive and contrived. It's all "bless this food to our bodies", "we thank you for this day", etc., little more than verbal tics in practice most of the time.

The hard part for me was, and would be, bullshitting myself or anyone else that any need prayed for, however legitimate / noble / selfless, will actually be fulfilled in any way distinguishable from random happenstance.

But then again, in the contrived scenario under discussion the person requesting prayer would really just be asking to be bullshitted. No different than a request to be told comforting lies. For a dying person's request, not unreasonable actually.

Truth be told, it's actually not a likely scenario. Even during the years I volunteered with hospice, no one ever asked me to pray with them. The had pastors and confidantes to do that with. Mostly they wanted to be taken care of / distracted and have innocuous conversations ... when they weren't looped up and delusional on morphine in the first place. Too often they came to us at the tail end of a misguided heroic battle of Extraordinary Measures, and died in a a few days, thanks to not facing reality sooner and entering hospice early enough to get some actual benefit from it.
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05-09-2015, 06:10 PM
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 04:25 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(05-09-2015 02:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  And Christians. However, it is written and prophesied in the core scriptures of all three. There will be unity of true Faith. There are twelve schools or churches or candles. They will unite, or man will fall.

There's all kinds of books of prophecy. The Hindu book of prophecy, Kalki Purana and the Chinese book of prophecy, Tui bei tu, have all kinds of crap people have interpreted to become true. "Interpreted" is the key to word here. Meaning there's all sorts of leeway and flexibility for the gibberish to mean something important. The Babble is no better.
Haven't researched those yet.
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05-09-2015, 06:11 PM
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 04:05 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(02-09-2015 09:02 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I would've prayed. But that's just me. Make your own call. It's not like atheism is proscriptive.
At this point (approaching 20 years of unbelief) it would be well nigh impossible for me to fake praying no matter how accommodating I wanted to be. It's dishonest and fake. I would try, I suppose, but I almost think my attempt would be worse than nothing.
Was an atheist for over 20 years.
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05-09-2015, 06:27 PM
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 05:55 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(05-09-2015 04:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Your effort is what would be appreciated.
Heh. If only one's efforts were invariably registered as such ...

However, yes, I would certainly try. It'd be the right thing to do. I don't know what would scare me more, coming off as fake, or how easily it might come back to me after all these years.
Fortunately, others biased opinions aren't too relevant in some(negative) situations.
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05-09-2015, 06:35 PM
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 05:41 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(05-09-2015 03:14 PM)jennybee Wrote:  But you weren't talking about being thankful for something earlier. You were talking about praying a Hindu prayer meant for a Hindu god and saying you could say it to your God. I mentioned one of God's fave parts of scripture earlier that refers to his disgust for idol worship(i.e. his Ten Commandments).
No, no, no, never meant to the imply praying any Hindi prayer. I specifically said to pray how you Personally feel right be it through whatever religion or manner as long as the message was good, thankful, not selfish, and under God. Praise isn't always synonymous with prayer, or worship. Thanks.

Oh okay I misunderstood your point. You are right re: praise not *always* being associated with worship--but if you read particular Bible passages--I think you would find that praise for things other than God and not putting God on a pedestal is not looked at to kindly by God. In my old church they would say that would be teetering in areas you don't want to teeter. Big Grin

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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05-09-2015, 07:06 PM
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 06:03 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(05-09-2015 04:49 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I guess that's the plus about being raised Catholic...no thought when it comes to prayer...just rote recitation.

Free form prayer mystified me when I moved to the south. I had never heard such things before...lots of 'Father Gods' and other key words and phrases like 'nourish my body'...blah, blah, blah. Although they were supposedly made up on the spot and heartfelt, after a while they even sounded scripted.
Yes the ritualistic stuff would be much easier to pull off. Maybe I should memorize a couple of those in case of need ;-)

But you are correct, even the free-form stuff becomes repetitive and contrived. It's all "bless this food to our bodies", "we thank you for this day", etc., little more than verbal tics in practice most of the time.

The hard part for me was, and would be, bullshitting myself or anyone else that any need prayed for, however legitimate / noble / selfless, will actually be fulfilled in any way distinguishable from random happenstance.

But then again, in the contrived scenario under discussion the person requesting prayer would really just be asking to be bullshitted. No different than a request to be told comforting lies. For a dying person's request, not unreasonable actually.

Truth be told, it's actually not a likely scenario. Even during the years I volunteered with hospice, no one ever asked me to pray with them. The had pastors and confidantes to do that with. Mostly they wanted to be taken care of / distracted and have innocuous conversations ... when they weren't looped up and delusional on morphine in the first place. Too often they came to us at the tail end of a misguided heroic battle of Extraordinary Measures, and died in a a few days, thanks to not facing reality sooner and entering hospice early enough to get some actual benefit from it.
Generally prayer is a means to stay in control over your own temptations, whatever they may be. Reflecting on the constant good in life, regardless of seeming cause and effect is a good way to identify and refuse greed. Life is full of confusion and tests. The test of life ((and consequently the joy of life) not only physical) is much easier with a simple and right study guide. That study guide is peaceful scripture and your conscience. The confusion in much Christianity lies in intentional confusion from the ancient RCC and the fact that people worship God, or the son of God, without following the actual teachings. All the New Testament is about the teachings of Jesus of Christ, and its relation to the Old Testament. He, himself states not to mention him, but follow his example. The Quran really is a peace promoting scripture as well which oft praises Jesus of Nazareth. The Torah prophesies both accounts of Christ or the peaceable lamb . They all contain all the same stuff, but the other two focus more on consequences, or the gravity of our situation throughout, as the Bible emphasises the significance of our situation more specifically in Revelations. The message is pretty simple if you can comprehend it. Shit, even if you can only grasp a little at first it really is good and the attempts of men to describe what they knew to the point of dieing for it. If they had doubt about Heaven and hell they sure didn't show it. And they sure as fuck didn't sacrifice there lives for a few wholly evil, manipulative, murderous, greedy wolves in sheep's clothing. Sorry for that last part; touchy subject.

Generally, Catholic practice seems to disconnect from any personal unity under God. The entire tradition almost seams secretly, purposefully confusing. That a different op I guess. Thanks. Might a went a little of topic.
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05-09-2015, 07:23 PM
RE: "Should you push aside your atheism for a few moments?"
(05-09-2015 06:35 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(05-09-2015 05:41 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No, no, no, never meant to the imply praying any Hindi prayer. I specifically said to pray how you Personally feel right be it through whatever religion or manner as long as the message was good, thankful, not selfish, and under God. Praise isn't always synonymous with prayer, or worship. Thanks.

Oh okay I misunderstood your point. You are right re: praise not *always* being associated with worship--but if you read particular Bible passages--I think you would find that praise for things other than God and not putting God on a pedestal is not looked at to kindly by God. In my old church they would say that would be teetering in areas you don't want to teeter. Big Grin
Most old christian practices are fragile, yet most are still good, at very least, in part. The fact is that the second coming will be through those who really practice what they preach for justification from God, not man, or any other idol, and not in a half hazard or negative manner of any sort. In my opinion, this will literally be through the children, possibly the next generation, or maybe because of the flaw instilled in us by man from birth will have to be negated which really shouldn't be too difficult once people start waking up. It seems to be happening more everyday.

I think I may be ranting a little. I apologize. Thanks
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