Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
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03-02-2014, 07:17 AM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(02-02-2014 10:01 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Is this maybe just a description of bronze age "medicine"?

Seems reasonable to me.

It's amazing how much the meaning of the Bible can change if you approach the thing with a preconception of any particular meaning, and then use that meaning to interpret the verses as you see fit. It's almost... circular.
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03-02-2014, 11:28 AM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(01-02-2014 09:37 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  1.) Symbolic of what?
I am glad to explain it to you. Jesus was teaching about eliminating sin from our lives, not removing part of our bodies. we have to take heroic measures of self-control to avoid sin and deny ourselves to ungodliness.

(01-02-2014 09:37 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  2.) How are people suppose to tell which verses are literal and with ones are symbolic?
In this verse is easy. It would be very stupid suggestion if it was literally.
By the power of the Holy Ghost people may understand Scriptures. The same way as Scriptures were written - by the power of the Holy Ghost.

(01-02-2014 09:37 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  3.) Why use an analogy that involves self-mutilation?
Hard to not notice this teaching and hard to forget. Easier to visualize what we have to do with sins.

English is not my native language.
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03-02-2014, 05:06 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2014 08:46 AM by Free.)
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(03-02-2014 11:28 AM)Alla Wrote:  By the power of the Holy Ghost people may understand Scriptures. The same way as Scriptures were written - by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Or by the power of human intellect and education people may understand scripture.

Let me quote some scripture to you and see how well you may understand it.

Mat 22:41 - Mat 22:46

Quote:While the Pharisees were gathered, Jesus asked them, "What do you think of Christ? Whose son is he?"
They replied to him, "David's."
He then asked them, "How then does David- while in the spirit- call him 'Lord', when he said, "the LORD said to my Lord, 'Sit on My right until I make Your enemies Your footstool for Your feet?' Since David then calls him Lord, then how can He be David's son?"

And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day to question Him any more.


Q: Since David then calls Him 'Lord,' then how can He be David's son?"

It is commonly understood by both Jews and Christians that the Messiah/Christ would come from the lineage of King David, hence the term "Son of David." Jesus is often referred to as "Jesus, Son of David," implying that he was of King David's lineage. Also, the word "Lord" means "Master," just for clarification. What Jesus is saying is that the quote of King David says something to the effect of "God said to Christ, 'Sit on My Right until I make your enemies Your footstool.'" Therefore, Jesus is asking how the Christ could possibly come from the lineage of King David when David himself consider's the Christ to be his lord and master, while on the contrary, if the Christ was from King David's lineage, then King David would be lord and master of Christ.

Therefore, Jesus is demonstrating a contradiction apparent in the beliefs of the Pharisee, which incidentally are the very same beliefs held today by both Jews and Christians. Jesus is indirectly telling them that the Christ could not come from the lineage of King David.

So, can you answer the question that Jesus asked to the Pharisee, and explain your answer?

Is the Christ from King David's lineage or not?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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04-02-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(03-02-2014 11:28 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 09:37 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  1.) Symbolic of what?
I am glad to explain it to you. Jesus was teaching about eliminating sin from our lives, not removing part of our bodies. we have to take heroic measures of self-control to avoid sin and deny ourselves to ungodliness.

So its all about your god's own happiness and everyone else has to willingly take it up the ass?

(03-02-2014 11:28 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 09:37 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  2.) How are people suppose to tell which verses are literal and with ones are symbolic?
In this verse is easy. It would be very stupid suggestion if it was literally.
By the power of the Holy Ghost people may understand Scriptures. The same way as Scriptures were written - by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Why not just just stick with either literal or symbolic verses instead of flip-flopping between the two?

(03-02-2014 11:28 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 09:37 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  3.) Why use an analogy that involves self-mutilation?
Hard to not notice this teaching and hard to forget. Easier to visualize what we have to do with sins.

Easier said than done.Dodgy
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05-02-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(03-02-2014 05:06 PM)Free Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 11:28 AM)Alla Wrote:  By the power of the Holy Ghost people may understand Scriptures. The same way as Scriptures were written - by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Or by the power of human intellect and education people may understand scripture.

Let me quote some scripture to you and see how well you may understand it.

Mat 22:41 - Mat 22:46

Quote:While the Pharisees were gathered, Jesus asked them, "What do you think of Christ? Whose son is he?"
They replied to him, "David's."
He then asked them, "How then does David- while in the spirit- call him 'Lord', when he said, "the LORD said to my Lord, 'Sit on My right until I make Your enemies Your footstool for Your feet?' Since David then calls him Lord, then how can He be David's son?"

And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day to question Him any more.


Q: Since David then calls Him 'Lord,' then how can He be David's son?"

It is commonly understood by both Jews and Christians that the Messiah/Christ would come from the lineage of King David, hence the term "Son of David." Jesus is often referred to as "Jesus, Son of David," implying that he was of King David's lineage. Also, the word "Lord" means "Master," just for clarification. What Jesus is saying is that the quote of King David says something to the effect of "God said to Christ, 'Sit on My Right until I make your enemies Your footstool.'" Therefore, Jesus is asking how the Christ could possibly come from the lineage of King David when David himself consider's the Christ to be his lord and master, while on the contrary, if the Christ was from King David's lineage, then King David would be lord and master of Christ.

Therefore, Jesus is demonstrating a contradiction apparent in the beliefs of the Pharisee, which incidentally are the very same beliefs held today by both Jews and Christians. Jesus is indirectly telling them that the Christ could not come from the lineage of King David.

So, can you answer the question that Jesus asked to the Pharisee, and explain your answer?

Is the Christ from King David's lineage or not?

Yes, He is. And, yes, I can answer Jesus's question. If Pharisees believed Jesus He would explain to them why David who is Jesus's ancestor IN FLESH called Jesus/Messiah "Lord" IN SPIRIT.
Did you notice words "IN SPIRIT"? David called his descendent Messiah
"Lord" IN SPIRIT.
Do you know what it means? "in spirit"?
I wonder if I should tell you what it means? Or may be like Jesus I will live you without an explanation?
Yes, power of human intelligence and education is very important. But without Spirit nobody can understand what Spirit teaches.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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05-02-2014, 07:11 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(04-02-2014 04:22 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  So its all about your god's own happiness and everyone else has to willingly take it up the ass?
No, not only His own happiness. He is not happy if or when we are not happy. So, it is also about our own happiness.

(04-02-2014 04:22 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  Why not just just stick with either literal or symbolic verses instead of flip-flopping between the two?
Symbolism is for this purpose: many things should be hidden from the unbelievers. Symbolism(secret code) is good way to hide.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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05-02-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(05-02-2014 07:04 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:06 PM)Free Wrote:  Or by the power of human intellect and education people may understand scripture.

Let me quote some scripture to you and see how well you may understand it.

Mat 22:41 - Mat 22:46



Q: Since David then calls Him 'Lord,' then how can He be David's son?"

It is commonly understood by both Jews and Christians that the Messiah/Christ would come from the lineage of King David, hence the term "Son of David." Jesus is often referred to as "Jesus, Son of David," implying that he was of King David's lineage. Also, the word "Lord" means "Master," just for clarification. What Jesus is saying is that the quote of King David says something to the effect of "God said to Christ, 'Sit on My Right until I make your enemies Your footstool.'" Therefore, Jesus is asking how the Christ could possibly come from the lineage of King David when David himself consider's the Christ to be his lord and master, while on the contrary, if the Christ was from King David's lineage, then King David would be lord and master of Christ.

Therefore, Jesus is demonstrating a contradiction apparent in the beliefs of the Pharisee, which incidentally are the very same beliefs held today by both Jews and Christians. Jesus is indirectly telling them that the Christ could not come from the lineage of King David.

So, can you answer the question that Jesus asked to the Pharisee, and explain your answer?

Is the Christ from King David's lineage or not?

Yes, He is. And, yes, I can answer Jesus's question. If Pharisees believed Jesus He would explain to them why David who is Jesus's ancestor IN FLESH called Jesus/Messiah "Lord" IN SPIRIT.
Did you notice words "IN SPIRIT"? David called his descendent Messiah
"Lord" IN SPIRIT.
Do you know what it means? "in spirit"?
I wonder if I should tell you what it means? Or may be like Jesus I will live you without an explanation?
Yes, power of human intelligence and education is very important. But without Spirit nobody can understand what Spirit teaches.

You seem to have not understood the verse. But that is normal among believers.

Firstly, the word "spirit" in that context refers to David's state of mind at the time. It means that David was feeling very close to God. That is all it means in that verse. No mystery to it at all.

Secondly, Jesus was telling the Pharisee that Christ was NOT from the lineage of King David. Yes, that is correct, Jesus was literally telling the Pharisee that the Christ was not a descendant of King David.

And I agree with Jesus. The Christ was not a descendant of King David. This is a very big mystery that Christians do not understand.

Now let me ask you something else. I am willing to tell you why Jesus said that the Christ was not a descendant of King David if you are willing to even recognize the possibility that an atheist could teach you something you do not know.

So, are you willing to admit that an atheist could teach you something about Jesus that you do not know? If not, then this conversation is over, and there will be no point discussing Jesus any further.

But if you are willing, then I will teach you something that will amaze you.

Your choice.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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06-02-2014, 08:33 AM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(05-02-2014 07:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(04-02-2014 04:22 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  So its all about your god's own happiness and everyone else has to willingly take it up the ass?
No, not only His own happiness. He is not happy if or when we are not happy. So, it is also about our own happiness.

And yet he took it upon himself to decide what actions are to be considered sinful or "ungodly" without consulting his creation or considering how others will be affected. Also, he hasn't bothered to change/update any of his rules nor does he have any interest in doing so.

(05-02-2014 07:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(04-02-2014 04:22 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  Why not just just stick with either literal or symbolic verses instead of flip-flopping between the two?
Symbolism is for this purpose: many things should be hidden from the unbelievers. Symbolism(secret code) is good way to hide.

Pussy-footing is not a legitimate excuse.

If this god of yours is serious about conveying his message and his basic needs to his creation, he needs to be more open and direct instead of playing some obscure guessing game about it. This is the well-being and safety of his creation that's at stake. If he can't take this more seriously, then he needs to take up basket weaving and leave them the fuck alone.
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06-02-2014, 12:55 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 03:52 PM by Alla.)
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(05-02-2014 09:48 PM)Free Wrote:  You seem to have not understood the verse. But that is normal among believers.
You can say this. But you don't know if your statement is true. But by the power of the Holy Ghost you may.

(05-02-2014 09:48 PM)Free Wrote:  Firstly, the word "spirit" in that context refers to David's state of mind at the time. It means that David was feeling very close to God. That is all it means in that verse. No mystery to it at all.
Or it means that David had a REVELATION or KNOWLEDGE/LIGHT from God and it does NOT mean what/how David felt. It means that David had what Pharisees didn't have - ADDITIONAL knowledge about Christ.


(05-02-2014 09:48 PM)Free Wrote:  Secondly, Jesus was telling the Pharisee that Christ was NOT from the lineage of King David. Yes, that is correct, Jesus was literally telling the Pharisee that the Christ was not a descendant of King David.
Really? Which verse are you talking about? I don't see Jesus telling them that they were wrong. Jesus didn't say that Messiah/Christ is not son of David.
By the way, your interpretation is very intelligent. You can say that Jesus disagreed with them. But there is another interpretation.
Pharisees believed that Christ will come through David's lineage.
I also believe that Christ was descendent of David through His mortal mother. But I believe in MORE. I believe that Christ is also Lord or God.
Pharisees didn't believe in this. They didn't know that Christ was also a God.

Jesus didn't deny that Christ was son of David but He knew that Pharisees didn't understand Who ELSE He was. Jesus knew that if He reveals to them what was revealed to David in spirit they won't believe Him. So instead of giving them an answer(MORE LIGHT/MORE REVELATIONS) He decided to make them THINK/PONDER:"Really, why did David call Him "Lord or God"?"

Jesus didn't take away from them what they already had(knowledge that Christ is son of David), Jesus didn't say they were wrong, but He withheld more light/knowledge from them. He made them think.
Many times while Jesus was teaching people He made them think about what He said instead of explaining to them right away or instead of speaking in plain language.


Jesus is Son of Mary(lineage of David) but He is NOT ONLY this. He is also Mary's Lord/God.

(05-02-2014 09:48 PM)Free Wrote:  Now let me ask you something else. I am willing to tell you why Jesus said that the Christ was not a descendant of King David if you are willing to even recognize the possibility that an atheist could teach you something you do not know.

So, are you willing to admit that an atheist could teach you something about Jesus that you do not know? If not, then this conversation is over, and there will be no point discussing Jesus any further.

But if you are willing, then I will teach you something that will amaze you.

Your choice.
Please, teach me. Please, amaze me. I will be only happy.
Yes, I accept that you can teach me something about Jesus that I don't know. Because I believe that all people are children of God. And I believe that all children of God receive knowledge and understanding from God according to:
1)their faith
2)their ability to understand
3)their worthiness.

English is not my native language.
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06-02-2014, 01:01 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(06-02-2014 08:33 AM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  And yet he took it upon himself to decide what actions are to be considered sinful or "ungodly" without consulting his creation or considering how others will be affected. Also, he hasn't bothered to change/update any of his rules nor does he have any interest in doing so.
He does through new revelations. And He is doing it all the time through His Prophets in our days.
Do you know why He didn't consult with His children? If you don't know what do you think would be the reason why He decided what is sinful and what is righteous?
(06-02-2014 08:33 AM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  
(05-02-2014 07:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  Symbolism is for this purpose: many things should be hidden from the unbelievers. Symbolism(secret code) is good way to hide.

Pussy-footing is not a legitimate excuse.

If this god of yours is serious about conveying his message and his basic needs to his creation, he needs to be more open and direct instead of playing some obscure guessing game about it. This is the well-being and safety of his creation that's at stake. If he can't take this more seriously, then he needs to take up basket weaving and leave them the fuck alone.
All those who accept His teaching UNDERSTAND what symbols mean. They understand according to their ability and faith. But those who do not believe and do not accept His teaching do NOT need to know what symbols mean. The less they know the better for them.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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