Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
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07-02-2014, 07:07 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
Quote:OK, I see. You are right. Jesus taught that Father and Him are one and we have to be one. But what does it mean to be one? Do we literally have to become one individual?
Or "to be one" means something else. Like for example, you and I are not drops of the water but two intelligent beings, unique individuals. I hope you do not deny that you are intelligent being and unique individual. No one is like you exactly.
Then how can we become one as Father and Son are one? We can be united in purpose: goals, love, faith, works, way of life.

There are many Most High Gods in the Universe and each one of them is unique.
But all of them are one because all of them are one in PURPOSE.

Yes, one in purpose.

You see, aside from being an atheist, I am also a humanist. I love humanity, and hope that someday all of humanity can be united for the purpose of making mankind a much better species.

At the moment, mankind is still an infant. Most people only think of themselves and their immediate family. They do not think about the poor, nor shelter the homeless, or feed the hungry.

We need a better system of government which would eliminate greed and religion. Greed and religion are the two main reasons why the world is in such bad shape.

Quote:
(07-02-2014 04:30 PM)Free Wrote:  So instead I choose to be honest and say, "I do not believe," because to spread a "belief" around to other people- and claim the belief to be a fact- when the belief cannot be proven is the same as spreading a lie.
To share with others what you believe is not dishonest thing. To force others to accept and follow your believes is wrong and evil thing to do.

The problem is that most people do not understand what being "dishonest" actually means. It does not mean "an intentional act to deceive," such as lying. My point is that almost all religions cannot prove what they claim at all, and have really no evidence to support their claims.

I find it "unintentional dishonesty" for people to attempt to spread their religious beliefs to other people when they cannot demonstrate any evidence at all to support those beliefs. They do not even know that they are being dishonest because their religious beliefs have convinced them that they are correct.

They do not know the difference between "knowledge" and "beliefs." They think they "know" when in fact all they do is "believe."

To know something means you can demonstrate it to be true. To believe something means you cannot demonstrate it to be true.

Many religious people do not understand the difference.

Quote:One of the things that Jesus did was baptism in water. Why did He do this? And shouldn't I follow Jesus's example?

Baptism is only symbolic. It symbolizes the washing away of your sins, but it does not physically wash away your sins. It symbolizes forgiveness.

But the forgiveness from others is not as important as forgiving your own self for the bad things you have done. Forgiving your own self is the first step towards learning to love yourself.

Baptism is self-forgiveness, so you can then leave your bad past behind you, learn to love yourself so that you can then love others. But it only symbolic.

As long as you understand what it means, you do not have to go through the symbolic ritual. All you need to do is begin by forgiving yourself of all the bad things in your past.

That is all it really is.

Quote:But those who say that they love God but at the same time hate Mister Brown, for example, do not love God.
Those who say that they love God but can not forgive another, or envy another do not love God.

If you love all your neighbors as you love yourself, then you have no worries about loving any god.

It wouldn't even matter if you believed God existed or not. Believing in the existence of God is not what is important. If God existed, he would not care if you believed in him.

If God existed, all he would care about is how well you lived your life, and how well you treated other people. If God existed and was all powerful, he would never need your belief or disbelief, because you would be so small of a factor as to not matter at all.

Believing in God is not the point, and never will be.

Believe in yourself. Make yourself a better person so that you can help others be better people also. If you can do that, and if God exists, then it wouldn't matter if you did not believe he existed, because he will judge you on the person you are, not on what you believe.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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08-02-2014, 07:00 AM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(06-02-2014 01:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  He does through new revelations. And He is doing it all the time through His Prophets in our days.
Do you know why He didn't consult with His children? If you don't know what do you think would be the reason why He decided what is sinful and what is righteous?

So your god is leaning towards favoritism again? I guess I was mistaken to think this god of yours actually care about the well-being of his creation if this is how he's going to operate.

(06-02-2014 01:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  All those who accept His teaching UNDERSTAND what symbols mean. They understand according to their ability and faith. But those who do not believe and do not accept His teaching do NOT need to know what symbols mean. The less they know the better for them.

Sounds a lot like special pleading.

Try again.Dodgy
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08-02-2014, 10:18 AM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
"They understand" Yet christians always find many a different meaning....


No. not suspicious at all.
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08-02-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
It sounds like George Bernard Shaw had a pretty good understanding of the literal/symbolic/poetry/hyperbole/etc. interpretation issue:

"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means."

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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08-02-2014, 06:31 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 06:38 PM by Alla.)
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  Yes, one in purpose.
You see, aside from being an atheist, I am also a humanist. I love humanity, and hope that someday all of humanity can be united for the purpose of making mankind a much better species.
I don't believe it is possible in this life/in this world to become one in purpose. The reason is because we can not be perfect. We can only try to be more united but we will never get there.
Your hope is in vain.

(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  At the moment, mankind is still an infant. Most people only think of themselves and their immediate family. They do not think about the poor, nor shelter the homeless, or feed the hungry.
It is not going to change in THIS world, in this life.

(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  We need a better system of government which would eliminate greed and religion. Greed and religion are the two main reasons why the world is in such bad shape.
Eliminate grid? How? Buy changing someone's heart?
Or do you mean to force someone to be good? It will fail.
Eliminate religion? How? Buy changing someone's heart?
Or do you mean to force someone not to believe? It will fail.
Let's take former USSR. This what atheists were doing there for more then 70 years. It failed. They forced people to be equal, to be good, not to be greedy.
They also preached atheism. They failed big time.
USSR hahaha Finita la comedia!

Or let's take true religion which is Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. There are laws of the Gospel. One of the laws is law of Consecration. It was given in times of Father Adam. It was given to ancient house of Israel. It was given in times of Christ. It is given in these latter days. God gave us(His Church) law to concencrate all we have - money, time, talents and even life if it is necessary to build Kingdom of God on Earth. Why did God give this law? He gave this law that all people will be equal and that it will be no more poor and needy. Beautiful law. But we are NOT READY to obey this law. We failed before, we failed in 1st century, we failed when Church was restored on Earth again. That is why God requires us(His Church)only 10% of our income so we can help the poor and needy.

(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  The problem is that most people do not understand what being "dishonest" actually means. It does not mean "an intentional act to deceive," such as lying. My point is that almost all religions cannot prove what they claim at all, and have really no evidence to support their claims.
I find it "unintentional dishonesty" for people to attempt to spread their religious beliefs to other people when they cannot demonstrate any evidence at all to support those beliefs. They do not even know that they are being dishonest because their religious beliefs have convinced them that they are correct.
I call it "being deceived" not dishonest. Dishonest is when you know in your heart that you are deceiving others. When you do not follow your conscience.

(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  They do not know the difference between "knowledge" and "beliefs." They think they "know" when in fact all they do is "believe."
I call it deception not lying.

(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  To know something means you can demonstrate it to be true. To believe something means you cannot demonstrate it to be true.
Many religious people do not understand the difference.
To believe is not = to be dishonest.
(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  ALLA:One of the things that Jesus did was baptism in water. Why did He do this? And shouldn't I follow Jesus's example?
Baptism is only symbolic. It symbolizes the washing away of your sins, but it does not physically wash away your sins. It symbolizes forgiveness.
True, it is very symbolic ordinance. But it doesn't symbolize forgiveness.
Baptism symbolize COVENANT with God that I am willing to take upon myself name of Christ and that I will always remember Him and will keep His commandments so my sins may be forgiven.
It also symbolize death of old sinful person(going under the water) and birth of new person who is ready for new life(going out of the water). It also symbolize death with Christ and resurrection with Christ.

(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  But the forgiveness from others is not as important as forgiving your own self for the bad things you have done. Forgiving your own self is the first step towards learning to love yourself.
I agree. We have to forgive ourselves. But to me it is very important that my Heavenly Father also will forgive me. When He let me know that He forgave me I know it is my turn to forgive myself.

(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  Baptism is self-forgiveness, so you can then leave your bad past behind you, learn to love yourself so that you can then love others. But it only symbolic.
Again baptism is not self-forgiveness but a covenant with God through symbolic and beautiful ritual.

(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  As long as you understand what it means, you do not have to go through the symbolic ritual. All you need to do is begin by forgiving yourself of all the bad things in your past.
Before I can to forgive myself I have to repent. Repentance is 5 steps process. Repentance will set me free from the sin.
But Jesus made this symbolic ritual. He said that He did it because all righteousness must be fulfilled. So, in order to enter Kingdom of God we have to have faith in Christ(so we will follow His example), we have to repent and we have to MAKE A COVENANT with God(baptism).
It is kind of like marriage - making a covenant before witnesses. And only after this symbolic ritual 2 people can become husband and wife. without this symbolic ritual they are just lovers(boyfriend and girlfriend).
Or when I became a citizen of the USA I had to do very beautiful and very symbolic ritual - oath.
I can not become a citizen without this ceremony. Silly? I guess. What difference does it make weather I take an oath or not? But it has the difference. To give an oath brings RESPONCIBILTY.
To marry legally through symbolic ritual means RESPONCIBILITY.
In order to become a citizen of God's Kingdom I have to take an oath through symbolic ritual. I am taking upon myself RESPONCIBILTY.


(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  If you love all your neighbors as you love yourself, then you have no worries about loving any god.
It wouldn't even matter if you believed God existed or not. Believing in the existence of God is not what is important. If God existed, he would not care if you believed in him.

If God existed, all he would care about is how well you lived your life, and how well you treated other people. If God existed and was all powerful, he would never need your belief or disbelief, because you would be so small of a factor as to not matter at all.
Believing in God is not the point, and never will be.
Congratulation on recognizing this part of the truth. Believing in God for believing sake is meaningless. Apostle James called it "dead faith". There is no point to believe in God for believing sake.

(07-02-2014 07:07 PM)Free Wrote:  Believe in yourself. Make yourself a better person so that you can help others be better people also. If you can do that, and if God exists, then it wouldn't matter if you did not believe he existed, because he will judge you on the person you are, not on what you believe.
AMEN. I mean "YES!". Congratulation again.
You have a lot of light.
I want to share with you more light but I believe that at this time I shouldn't, brother.
I wish you all the best.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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08-02-2014, 06:41 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more Christians with eye patches?
(08-02-2014 10:18 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  "They understand" Yet christians always find many a different meaning....


No. not suspicious at all.
true. It is very suspicious.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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08-02-2014, 07:29 PM
Scriptural warnings are better than eye patches.
(31-01-2014 06:43 PM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out,
and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for
thee that one of thy members should perish, and
not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Thank you Jesus for the excellent warning.
Better to heed Jesus and keep both eyes.
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