Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-11-2016, 04:32 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
Well obviously there SHOULDN'T be, because the whole confounding of languages after the Tower of Babel would have completely wiped out all oral traditions and written history, and the whole matter would have been forgotten until Yahweh revealed the Pentatuch to Moses.

The real question is, if any of it's true (it isn't), why are there so many stories like Noah's Flood still left?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2016, 04:43 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
(13-11-2016 04:32 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Well obviously there SHOULDN'T be, because the whole confounding of languages after the Tower of Babel would have completely wiped out all oral traditions and written history, and the whole matter would have been forgotten until Yahweh revealed the Pentatuch to Moses.
That made no sense to me. Consider

Quote:The real question is, if any of it's true (it isn't), why are there so many stories like Noah's Flood still left?

Because floods happen?
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2016, 07:42 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
(13-11-2016 04:32 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Well obviously there SHOULDN'T be, because the whole confounding of languages after the Tower of Babel would have completely wiped out all oral traditions and written history, and the whole matter would have been forgotten until Yahweh revealed the Pentatuch to Moses.

Why would the confounding of languages stop people from passing on oral traditions of the flood? Memories should have still been intact after this and oral tradition should have persisted, just in other languages. Or am I missing something?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2016, 07:52 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2016 07:58 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
It's not that complicated, Seoq.

The Caananite religion that the Hebrew people turned (much later) into their monotheistic beliefs, about 600 years before Jesus, had its roots in the Sumerian Empire's religion (and other religions in the region that also had the same roots, such as the Babylonians, who had captured the people that wrote/compiled much of what we now call the Old Testament, most particularly Genesis).

In the area around the Babylonian Empire, we find very similar stories to what was written down in Genesis. But if you go away from that region, you find that the story is not repeated by others at all.

There ARE flood legends in other cultures, since major (traumatic) floods happen pretty much anywhere around the world where there's water, but you'll find they are not related to the Genesis legend of Noah. You'll also find that there are no flood legends in places that don't flood naturally. (Edit to Add: Creationist websites like to misrepresent myth stories of other peoples, in order to make it sound like their accounts square up with the Genesis myth... do your own research on the subject, when you encounter such claims.)

Reltzik was being sarcastic about the "Tower of Babel". It wasn't a real thing, just as Noah's flood wasn't a real thing. It's against every law of physics-- if a flood on the magnitude contained in the story actually happened, that much rain would have released enough energy in condensation that it would have heated the earth (and increased atmospheric pressure) to the point that even bacteria would have died. It would have required rain on a scale literally hundreds of times more powerful than the most powerful hurrican rainfall ever recorded, in inches per hour, for the entire 40 days and nights, in order for enough rain to fall that it would cover even the top of Mt. Ararat.

The story is part of a borrowed mythology that the Hebrews shaped into their own legends. It's really that simple.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
13-11-2016, 08:55 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
(13-11-2016 07:42 PM)seoq Wrote:  Why would the confounding of languages stop people from passing on oral traditions of the flood? Memories should have still been intact after this and oral tradition should have persisted, just in other languages. Or am I missing something?

There are zero oral/written/pictographic legends left by Australian aboriginals, who have a confirmed history dating back approximately 40,000 years to Mungo Man.

And the Aborigines, being nomadic, covered the entire 7.7 million km² of Australia at one time—well before the Christian mythology first appeared. But no flood story.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2016, 09:32 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
I've paraphrased a Dec 2012 item from ABC News about the origins of a historical flood in the Middle East...
________________________________________________________________________________​________________________________________________________________________________​______________

"[Professor Robert Duane Ballard], one of the world's best-known underwater archaeologists, talked about his findings. His team is [was] probing the depths of the Black Sea off the coast of Turkey in search of traces of an ancient civilization hidden underwater since the time of Noah...

He said some 12,000 years ago, much of the world was covered in ice...

The water from the melting glaciers began to rush toward the world's oceans, Ballard said, causing floods all around the world...

According to [...] two Columbia University scientists, there really was one in the Black Sea region. They believe that the now-salty Black Sea was once an isolated freshwater lake surrounded by farmland, until it was flooded by an enormous wall of water from the rising Mediterranean Sea. The force of the water was two hundred times that of Niagara Falls, sweeping away everything in its path...

Four hundred feet below the surface, they unearthed an ancient shoreline, proof to Ballard that a catastrophic event did happen in the Black Sea. By carbon dating shells found along the shoreline, Ballard said he believes they have established a timeline for that catastrophic event, which he estimates happened around 5,000 BC. Some experts believe this was around the time when Noah's flood could have occurred... it broke through and flooded this place violently, and a lot of real estate, 150,000 square kilometers of land, went under."

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2016, 09:49 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
(13-11-2016 07:42 PM)seoq Wrote:  
(13-11-2016 04:32 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Well obviously there SHOULDN'T be, because the whole confounding of languages after the Tower of Babel would have completely wiped out all oral traditions and written history, and the whole matter would have been forgotten until Yahweh revealed the Pentatuch to Moses.

Why would the confounding of languages stop people from passing on oral traditions of the flood? Memories should have still been intact after this and oral tradition should have persisted, just in other languages. Or am I missing something?

How could they tell their stories if they couldn't speak to each other?

.... I guess you could say that SOME of them could speak to each other. Or maybe say they taught their children their languages.

.... Okay, I'm grappling with how to decide whether this rationalization passes the bullshit test when what it is trying to rationalize fails to do so.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2016, 10:07 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2016 10:15 PM by seoq.)
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
It was always my understanding that the populations spread across the earth each had their own language. Example: population A was put in place X by God and everyone in that population shared a new language and population B was put in place Y by God and everyone in that population shared a new language. That -everyone- was made to not understand each other is a new thought to me and I'm a little embarrassed I hadn't considered it. I get what you're saying now Reltzik.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2016, 10:32 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
(13-11-2016 08:55 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(13-11-2016 07:42 PM)seoq Wrote:  Why would the confounding of languages stop people from passing on oral traditions of the flood? Memories should have still been intact after this and oral tradition should have persisted, just in other languages. Or am I missing something?

There are zero oral/written/pictographic legends left by Australian aboriginals, who have a confirmed history dating back approximately 40,000 years to Mungo Man.

And the Aborigines, being nomadic, covered the entire 7.7 million km² of Australia at one time—well before the Christian mythology first appeared. But no flood story.

Creationists actually claim that the Aborigines have a flood story, called the "Bundaba" flood story. It's found on Answers in Genesis' website, and repeated on a number of Creationist/Christian websites... but nowhere else. The problems is that their source is, quote "As told by Jimmy Bird", presumably an aborigine... but there's no other source to be found anywhere.

I highly suspect that it is yet another case of "pious fraud", or as I call it, "Lying for Jesus™".

http://creation.com/australian-aboriginal-flood-stories

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RocketSurgeon76's post
13-11-2016, 11:02 PM
RE: Shouldn't there be more cultures with near exact Noah stories?
(13-11-2016 10:32 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(13-11-2016 08:55 PM)SYZ Wrote:  There are zero oral/written/pictographic legends left by Australian aboriginals, who have a confirmed history dating back approximately 40,000 years to Mungo Man.

And the Aborigines, being nomadic, covered the entire 7.7 million km² of Australia at one time—well before the Christian mythology first appeared. But no flood story.

Creationists actually claim that the Aborigines have a flood story, called the "Bundaba" flood story. It's found on Answers in Genesis' website, and repeated on a number of Creationist/Christian websites... but nowhere else. The problems is that their source is, quote "As told by Jimmy Bird", presumably an aborigine... but there's no other source to be found anywhere.

I highly suspect that it is yet another case of "pious fraud", or as I call it, "Lying for Jesus™".

http://creation.com/australian-aboriginal-flood-stories

I prefer "bearing false witness in Jesus's name".

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Reltzik's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: