"Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
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07-02-2014, 01:42 AM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
(07-02-2014 12:45 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 04:47 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Still dodging huh? One day you may grow a pair and front up.

I dodge nothing, you pathetic lying theist shill.

C'mon then you shirker, present your case for atheism. I think you you qualify for white feather atheism, as your view rests on "cos evidence works bitchez"? I really hope so as it makes me laugh due to the fantastic simplemindedness of it.
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07-02-2014, 01:50 AM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
(07-02-2014 01:01 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 01:43 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  What terms do you want me to define? I haven't placed the spontaneous creation of matter due to what was happening at Cern. Happy to be showed otherwise.

"spontaneous creation of matter"

Please define those terms as you are using them. Also, it would be neat if you explain exactly how you are applying them to the current conversation. Thumbsup

(To be absolutely fair, I haven't yet been able to discern what the point of this conversation is yet, that's why I'm making you do it Tongue )

The spontaneous creation of matter is not my phrase. I am applying them to see why it's commonly asserted that this phrase accounts for existence.
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07-02-2014, 01:58 AM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
(07-02-2014 01:50 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  The spontaneous creation of matter is not my phrase. I am applying them to see why it's commonly asserted that this phrase accounts for existence.

Alrighty then, it's way past my bedtime. I'm not gonna wait up for "them", or those who'd assert such a thing. You let me know when that happened and we'll continue the conversation.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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07-02-2014, 02:12 AM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
You really think no atheists assert this don't you? I find many atheists a bizarre breed.
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07-02-2014, 04:18 AM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
I'll take a crack at this.

It seems to me, that an atheistic position must be the default position. After all, the only determination one can conclude is what we all experience collectively. Dismissing for the moment, what we may conclude individually.

Left alone, causality is a level field for all. Individually, this field changes at the moment an individual proposes an idea toward cause.
Wherein that individual must make their position or idea fit the entire collective. The collective cannot make allowances toward any given idea proposed by the individual.

All we have for any kind of evidence that there is a cause in the first place, is that we exist. All we have to verify the particulars of our existence is what we can test, learn, accept and reject as it applies to the whole. What we call nature. Or natural.

Even this position alters the playing field. Yet it is a position that requires no god or purposeful cause by a greater intellect.

As such it is far more in line with the collective or whole, if you take my meaning.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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07-02-2014, 06:03 AM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
(05-02-2014 04:22 PM)Just Another Atheist Wrote:  Im not sure if I should face palm at something like this or think about it.


I thought about it and I came back to the idea that THEY have the burden of proof. Not believing in God whilst accepting the possibility of there being one would technically be the default position.

He then went on to say Absence of evidence is not evidence of absenceā€¦ Aww man, sometimes I know how Bill Nye feels.

Their logic is fucked up, period. They refuse to consider, even outside the issue of religion, all the absurd claims they dismiss themselves without giving a thought to taking the time to debunk them.

The believer would not waste any time dismissing, for example, a claim like "I have an invisible pink Lamborghini". Why couldn't that be true? Pink exists and Lamborghinis exist but they cant dismiss it because they have never seen an invisible one.

Secondly, what is our scientific proof? The human brain and Occam's razor. We know that biological evolution has lead to the emergent property of cognition and thought, and those things REQUIRE a material structure to occur. Just like there can be no "speed" without a car in motion.

Occam's razor stipulates that out of countless claims that are postulated to fill in as a possible solution to answer a problem, the one with the least baggage is the most likely answer.

So, in knowing that the only place we see cognition is in biological evolution and we have no evidence that cognition or thought can occur without a material structure, combined with the fact there is tons of evidence that humans make up gods, those can only lead you to the most likely answer.

1. There really is a non material magical super brain.

Or.

2. Humans make them up.

Now, at this point the theist argues "that doesn't disprove", and "you are only saying it is highly unlikely".

Yes, but that does not make us "agnostic". When we say as atheists, there is no god, we do mean it. "The highly unlikely" part is simply technically semantic. In other words because of that infinitely low probability of a god existing, we would say it is not worth considering anymore than an invisible pink Lamborghini.

For me at least, I look at the god claims in relationship to past, current and future. As far as the past and current claims I have no doubt all of them are mere concoctions of humans. Technically and semantically only, I refer to the future as "agnostic" but still I see nothing about science that would lead us in the future to a god and again, so fleetingly unlikely you might as well be claiming tooth fairies or Thor making lightening.

I am an "agnostic atheist", "agnostic" only about the "technical" aspect of not being able to live in the future, but my current position right now is "off" in that currently I do not hold the position that a god exists or can exist, or is even required for that matter.

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07-02-2014, 08:18 AM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
(07-02-2014 02:12 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  You really think no atheists assert this don't you? I find many atheists a bizarre breed.

Depends. Are you saying spontaneous creation of matter from nothing?

If so, which sort of nothing are we talking about?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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07-02-2014, 11:05 AM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
(07-02-2014 01:37 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I've always assumed Newton's books to show science, and to a lesser degree Hawkins when he's not attempting to portray himself as omniscient, not to be another Anti-theist scientist attempting to justify strong atheism.

Hawkins? Is that the love child of Dawkins and Hawking? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-02-2014, 11:42 AM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
Ask them for the scientific facts on their disbelief in fairies and unicorns.

Unless they're Christian, then they should believe in that last one.
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07-02-2014, 05:22 PM
RE: "Show me scientific facts on your disbelief in all Gods".
(07-02-2014 11:42 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  Ask them for the scientific facts on their disbelief in fairies and unicorns.

Unless they're Christian, then they should believe in that last one.

Mmmmm Unicorn stew. It's really tasty when you have nothing.

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