Shutting up preachers
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09-07-2017, 08:59 AM
RE: Shutting up preachers
(09-07-2017 07:38 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 09:24 AM)Alla Wrote:  According to the Gospel of Christ, God doesn't change people. God only gives us knowledge and opportunities for a change.

When someone believes the gospel he is reborn spiritually and becomes a child of God. Until we take this step we are spiritually dead and can't change ourselves no matter how much knowledge we have.

(09-07-2017 03:24 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  When I was younger and LDS or JW's would come to the door I would always ask them if I could pray before they came in "Lord Lucifer may your fire's enlighten our minds." about then they were usually running away for all they were worth.

I guess they didn't realize that they are actually servants of Lucifer. Lucifer, or Satan as he is generally known, can appear as an angel of light and convince people that the message he is giving them comes from God.

Naw. I asked them if I could pray, not my fault they assumed it was to their god. Honestly theres a part of me that wants there to be a hell. If there is I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Satan is behind the bible. "Hey YHWH... You know instead of constantly scaring the shit out of people maybe you should write it all down. You know... Tell all those busy bodys... I mean people who want to worship you how they can get to heaven. Yes that's a great idea. I will go right away and make sure hell is full of endless torment." Satan leaves.

Bob: "So did he buy it?"
Satan: "Ego maniac of course he bought it. Now we don't have to worry about the goody goodies trying to ruin our fun. Hey somebody start the music already. And where's my beer!? Yes Lilith the strippers too, I know you have your eye on the new guy. Ya she's not bad either.
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09-07-2017, 08:37 PM
RE: Shutting up preachers
theophilus Wrote:When someone believes the gospel he is reborn spiritually and becomes a child of God. Until we take this step we are spiritually dead and can't change ourselves no matter how much knowledge we have.

1) we can change ourselves without knowledge of Gospel. There are many people who are not Christians but they change from bad person to good person, or from good person to better person.
2)According to the Gospel of Christ we are children of God even before we come to this earth.

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09-07-2017, 08:46 PM
RE: Shutting up preachers
mordant Wrote:I don't think what you post supports that claim. You said good / pleasant outcomes or "fruits" (or, in effect, your feelings) govern your judgments about whether something is likely to be true.
Results(fruits) are facts.
Q: What is the truth?
A: facts.
When I see that results(fruits) of my believes are good then I know that my believes are good. When my believes improve quality of my life(fruits) and bring me joy(fruit) I know that my believes are good.

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10-07-2017, 12:25 AM
RE: Shutting up preachers
(09-07-2017 08:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  
theophilus Wrote:When someone believes the gospel he is reborn spiritually and becomes a child of God. Until we take this step we are spiritually dead and can't change ourselves no matter how much knowledge we have.

1) we can change ourselves without knowledge of Gospel. There are many people who are not Christians but they change from bad person to good person, or from good person to better person.
2)According to the Gospel of Christ we are children of God even before we come to this earth.

> “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” (Steven Weinberg) Consider

> “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” (Epicurus) Consider
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10-07-2017, 02:33 AM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2017 02:37 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Shutting up preachers
(09-07-2017 08:46 PM)Alla Wrote:  
mordant Wrote:I don't think what you post supports that claim. You said good / pleasant outcomes or "fruits" (or, in effect, your feelings) govern your judgments about whether something is likely to be true.
Results(fruits) are facts.
Q: What is the truth?
A: facts.
When I see that results(fruits) of my believes are good then I know that my believes are good. When my believes improve quality of my life(fruits) and bring me joy(fruit) I know that my believes are good.

It doesn't mean they are true, though. They may just be over-elaborate explanations for very simple ideas.

For example, I could say, "I go to the doctor when I'm ill because my pet dragon says I should". I get good results from this. It improves my quality of life. But I've missed the point entirely and just attributed good advice to an imaginary agent. I haven't shown the agent to be real or my belief to be totally true. Of course, one has to decide how much one cares if the beliefs are true. If one does, then careful critical analysis can be performed to strip away meaningless (or even counterproductive) parts of beliefs.

I see this all the time in other areas, too. In dog behaviour, many trainers still subscribe to the "being alpha" dogma which has been thoroughly debunked (being dominant over your pet). However, they may still get fairly good results, because they have mixed in good (or fairly good) techniques with the bad dogma. They then partially attribute success to the wrong thing.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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10-07-2017, 05:01 AM
RE: Shutting up preachers
(10-07-2017 02:33 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  In dog behaviour, many trainers still subscribe to the "being alpha" dogma which has been thoroughly debunked (being dominant over your pet). However, they may still get fairly good results, because they have mixed in good (or fairly good) techniques with the bad dogma. They then partially attribute success to the wrong thing.
Yes that's how the world goes 'round. People misattribute causes all the time. How many times have you told someone about a physical ailment or injury or relationship challenge and they say, "oh, you just need to do [whatever it was I did]" which, even if the attribution is correct (it seldom is), it doesn't mean it will work for you just because it did for them.
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10-07-2017, 08:40 AM
RE: Shutting up preachers
(09-07-2017 08:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  1) we can change ourselves without knowledge of Gospel. There are many people who are not Christians but they change from bad person to good person, or from good person to better person.

We can make changes in the way we live but the only change that will make us acceptable to God is to be spiritually reborn and only God can make that change for us.

Quote:2)According to the Gospel of Christ we are children of God even before we come to this earth.

Are you a Mormon? This sounds like what they teach. John 1:11-13 says, "He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." We can't become children of God is we already are children. What is this Gospel of Christ you refer to? It clearly isn't the same gospel that the Bible reveals.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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10-07-2017, 11:12 PM
RE: Shutting up preachers
Ah cool, it's been a while since I've seen a good old fashioned Christ-off Big Grin

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10-07-2017, 11:48 PM
RE: Shutting up preachers
(10-07-2017 11:12 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Ah cool, it's been a while since I've seen a good old fashioned Christ-off Big Grin

Showers of chrism everywhere...

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-07-2017, 03:56 AM
RE: Shutting up preachers
(10-07-2017 11:48 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(10-07-2017 11:12 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Ah cool, it's been a while since I've seen a good old fashioned Christ-off Big Grin

Showers of chrism everywhere...
to coin a new phrase: "He was Christing one off"

It might be a euphemism, I'm not sure yet Laugh out load

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