Simulated universe
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05-09-2013, 03:27 AM
Simulated universe
Imagine scientists find evidence which confirms the simulated reality hypothesis. How do you think would this affect your life ? would you care ? what do you think the reaction of humanity in general would be ? What would be the reaction of the religious groups ?
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05-09-2013, 03:31 AM
RE: Simulated universe
Wow! That's deep.

I think I would carry on taking the blue pills.


[Image: 20070729_viagra.jpg]

But at least we would know that there has been at least semi-Intelligent Design.

The godly would start searching for the almighty designer.

So nothing new there.

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05-09-2013, 03:52 AM
RE: Simulated universe
i would just worry that the beings ( presumably a very advanced civilization ) get bored of it and pull the plug (on the other hand we probably wouldn't even notice ).

another interesting thing to think about is, that at any time they could press the "save button" and pause the simulation, we wouldn't even notice. Our universe could suddenly stop for a few million years and then resume. They could also load previous saves and go back a few years and we wouldn't know.

Furthermore how would i know that i am not the only "real" person ? for all i know i could be the only real conscious being and everybody else is just AI which mimics intelligent life (i sometimes get that feeling when listening to creationists ).

I think the religious groups would pull the "look we knew it all along , it says so right here in this very vague verse in our holy book " thing.
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05-09-2013, 04:02 AM
RE: Simulated universe
(05-09-2013 03:52 AM)H2O2 Wrote:  i would just worry that the beings ( presumably a very advanced civilization ) get bored of it and pull the plug (on the other hand we probably wouldn't even notice ).

another interesting thing to think about is, that at any time they could press the "save button" and pause the simulation, we wouldn't even notice. Our universe could suddenly stop for a few million years and then resume. They could also load previous saves and go back a few years and we wouldn't know.

Furthermore how would i know that i am not the only "real" person ? for all i know i could be the only real conscious being and everybody else is just AI which mimics intelligent life (i sometimes get that feeling when listening to creationists ).

I think the religious groups would pull the "look we knew it all along , it says so right here in this very vague verse in our holy book " thing.

Well the Islamics would say that. They always say that.

How do you know the plug hasn't already been pulled?

A 'roll-back' would be nice. I'd vote for that.

I want to go back to just before I made a 'download' error. If you know what I mean.

And for the record, you are not the "only real conscious being". That would be our solipsistic friend GirlyMan.

Yes

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05-09-2013, 04:17 AM
RE: Simulated universe
(05-09-2013 04:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  A 'roll-back' would be nice. I'd vote for that.

I want to go back to just before I made a 'download' error. If you know what I mean.

well you wouldnt know that a roll-back has happened, so you might just repeat the same error.
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05-09-2013, 06:32 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2013 06:45 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Simulated universe
Energy can not be created nor destroyed. Therefore, any simulation contains less mass/energy than the reality which created it.

Furthermore, when creating a simulation, nothing can be hidden absolutely. It is a problem with digital encryption, nothing can be encrypted un-decryptably, any encryption contains the key to decryption, any illusion has the key to revealing itself. All the internet security protocol relies on only one mathematical problems, the problem of factorization of large prime numbers. Large prime numbers are easy to generate, but very difficult to factor (find out what parts were they made of).

Even illusion has to be based at least partially on reality, or it can not be created or maintained at all. It is impossible to create a complete illusion, it would be akin to extending the reality. In other words, it is absolutely impossible to create a Matrix without a white rabbit or a red pill. It's as impossible, as to escape deadly Amazonian poison ants by climbing on top of a chair, or by suspending yourself from a ceiling, when they can climb walls, ceiling and the rope on which you suspend yourself. The things you use to escape are the things they can climb on, there is no other possibility. By building the walls, you build the bridges. By creating an illusion, you create seams of this illusion. Therefore, all illusions are inevitably doomed, sooner or later. The time depends on how much interaction goes on inside them, how much energy do they contain. Energy wears them out by interaction. Yet interaction is precisely why simulations are created, to demonstrate a particular kind of interaction.

I have no problem with deleting simulated personalities. A simulated personality in a computer is a pattern, which can be endlessly generated or copied, or deleted. What makes it "real" and "unique" is the energy that it contains.
Any personality, any pattern does not have free will, it can not do anything of its own. It is DRIVEN by the energy. It is driven by a potential voltage greater at one place and lesser at the other. The flow of voltage drives the personality.

If you want to look at it philosophically... A high-energetic source reality may contain endless possibilities. Free particles or waves may connect in a countless myriads of ways. But they don't, they stay in amorphous state of flux, because there is too much energy, or the energy level is too high, too many possibilities. Omnipotence equals impotence, no creation at all. The only way to create anything in particular, is to particularize the energy, restrict it, limit it. It is to collapse the haughty, soaring yet un-real quantum wave into one very simple, boring particle. This creates the simulation. This fall from grace.

However, any isolated area with lower energy state will be in imbalance with the higher energy state around it. An energy trapped in a system will seep into all recesses of the system, it will search for ways to connect with the outside - and the outside will try to do the same, to interfere with the simulation.
However, the high-energy source reality may choose to create the simulation, to demonstrate and prove certain properties of itself, which are not observable in the state of countless possibilities. Which properties? All particular ones, except the one impartially, imparticularly unlimited (omnipotent) one.

The amount of energy in the universe is limited, it can only sustain a limited amount of patterns. Therefore, destruction (death) is a natural and necessary part of any simulation. But destruction has to be limited, to make existence possible. There must be other principles, which can counteract destruction. Destruction and death is merely an illusion, but it is very real in the world of shadows, of patterns. The only principle that can counteract destruction is the source principle of reality, the energy which created it. In the source of reality, there is no destruction, only existence. There are no patterns, therefore no limitation and no destruction. Only the concrete is temporary, the sublime is eternal vital stillness, like center of a rotating wheel.

Now, the only question is, how long is the way from a simulated reality to the source reality. Some people think it is very far indeed and there are many layers of simulation, of still greater energetic level and possibilities. One more dimension of possibility per layer of simulation. We are made of 3D particles, the reality above us is made of 4D, then 5D and so on. Some however think the way to the source reality is very short, just behind the corner. I think they underestimate the situation a lot. But in a sense they might be correct, the source reality might be present in some sense in all, to keep the whole thing running. There might be a direct link or descent from every joul, watt and photon of the energy of the universe to the Big Bang itself, just like every 1 bit in your RAM is descended from the coal power plant hundreds of km away and energy in this coal came from the sun through photosynthesis.

I wonder how many people can realize this is merely an exercise in logic, not in crazy ramblings.
What I just said is equally true for computer-simulated reality and this universe. Therefore I can sit on both chairs and pretend I am rational in front of local skeptics Smile

When science-fiction writers write of simulated worlds and persons and as real and valuable as non-simulated ones, they commit philosophical and factual, computer-related errors. They do not understand computers very well. They do not realize, that a computer of Von Neumann or Turing architecture is incapable to transcend its programming, its context, so they invent some non-computer-like computers which make no sense, or they imagine artificial brains, which makes more sense, but it is not really a simulation.
Even very good writers succumb to relativism. I say, every simulation breaks down at some point, every theater decoration has its unpainted back side with props to keep it up. Every personal ego can be exposed as lying to yourself. Lots of poetry and suicides are based on this. Yes, in the only possible sense, our universe is a simulation as well and astrophysicists say there is a more energetic/massive reality, unseen all around us, from which we are seemingly isolated.
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