Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
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10-01-2017, 12:48 PM
Rainbow Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
I've heard this from a young age that Jesus died for our sins and when you sin, you'll be forgiven if you're truly sorry.

Wait.. So the suffering you've caused becomes inconsequential??

In my humble opinion, that's not exactly sensible

let's say you kill someone.. you've sinned and caused suffering to others and also started a possible chain reaction.

So the children of the victim may have to stop full-time education and begin work, they may not find a job... etc.

You can't be without sin unfortunately.. But I think you can still enter heaven whatever your beliefs

I think that in order to truly enter heaven, your good deeds and their effects must outweigh the sins and their consequences.

So... in short, you are exonerated of your sin only if you actually attempt to fix the mess you might've made

Simple. (I think) Big Grin
- C

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10-01-2017, 12:52 PM
RE: Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
(10-01-2017 12:48 PM)Cypher44 Wrote:  I've heard this from a young age that Jesus died for our sins and when you sin, you'll be forgiven if you're truly sorry.

Wait.. So the suffering you've caused becomes inconsequential??

In my humble opinion, that's not exactly sensible

let's say you kill someone.. you've sinned and caused suffering to others and also started a possible chain reaction.

So the children of the victim may have to stop full-time education and begin work, they may not find a job... etc.

You can't be without sin unfortunately.. But I think you can still enter heaven whatever your beliefs

I think that in order to truly enter heaven, your good deeds and their effects must outweigh the sins and their consequences.

So... in short, you are exonerated of your sin only if you actually attempt to fix the mess you might've made

Simple. (I think) Big Grin
- C

Is there a question in these posts or are you just here to preach your personal version of Christianity?

Since I don't believe there is a heaven, or any sort of afterlife, the rules for how you get in are pretty meaningless. How about we start with why anybody should believe there is a god at all and then we can work up to which god it is and what rules he has made?

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10-01-2017, 12:55 PM
RE: Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
It may be simple but nothing points to it being real. Sin is offence against imagined god and heaven merely wishful thinking for those afraid of nothingness.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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10-01-2017, 01:16 PM
RE: Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
At work.

Hello again Cypher44! Big Grin

I feel I should echo the above.

Why should any of the attributes of said diety be bothered with?

Why needs there to be a diety?
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10-01-2017, 02:10 PM
RE: Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
Knowing what I know of physiology and human consciousness, the prospect of there being any sort of afterlife at all seems rather unlikely.

That said, Cypher, your "good outweighs the bad" concept is reminiscent of the Egyptian afterlife judgement with the heart weighed on a scale, measured against the ostrich feather of the goddess Ma'at.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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10-01-2017, 02:11 PM
RE: Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
(10-01-2017 12:48 PM)Cypher44 Wrote:  In my humble opinion, that's not exactly sensible

Why does your opinion outweigh church doctrine?

(10-01-2017 12:48 PM)Cypher44 Wrote:  You can't be without sin unfortunately.. But I think you can still enter heaven whatever your beliefs

Why heaven?
What about Valhalla? or Nirvana? or Hades?

I can claim that when I die that I will be reborn as a hobbit prince in Middle Earth. If no evidence is required then you have to accept my claim as valid.

Define sin. Are you referring to a crime against god or man?

(10-01-2017 12:48 PM)Cypher44 Wrote:  I think that in order to truly enter heaven, your good deeds and their effects must outweigh the sins and their consequences.

Again, why should anyone place more value on your opinion than the doctrines of the church?

(10-01-2017 12:48 PM)Cypher44 Wrote:  So... in short, you are exonerated of your sin only if you actually attempt to fix the mess you might've made

You cannot be exonerated of the consequences of your actions, for good or ill.

What evidence do you have of any afterlife?

Through science, we can determine that your consciousness is a byproduct of the chemical reactions occurring in your brain. Everything about your "self", memories, preferences (likes/dislikes), everything can be changed via external sources. Drug use, medicines, disease, physical damage, age deterioration, all can change everything about you.

When you die, the chemical processes will stop and you will cease to exist.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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10-01-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
(10-01-2017 12:48 PM)Cypher44 Wrote:  I've heard this from a young age that Jesus died for our sins and when you sin, you'll be forgiven if you're truly sorry.

Wait.. So the suffering you've caused becomes inconsequential??

In my humble opinion, that's not exactly sensible

let's say you kill someone.. you've sinned and caused suffering to others and also started a possible chain reaction.

So the children of the victim may have to stop full-time education and begin work, they may not find a job... etc.

You can't be without sin unfortunately.. But I think you can still enter heaven whatever your beliefs

I think that in order to truly enter heaven, your good deeds and their effects must outweigh the sins and their consequences.

So... in short, you are exonerated of your sin only if you actually attempt to fix the mess you might've made

Simple. (I think) Big Grin
- C

That's all very nice, Cypher. It's important to let go of religious arrogance and appreciate all people, regardless of their beliefs.
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10-01-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
This whole thing reminds me of the Buddhist concept of karma and the whole idea of good karma outweighing bad karma and allowing us to achieve enlightenment. It enforces good acts because the world will be better for it, not just yourself.

A reward/punishment system does nothing to enforce good acts since it's all about you and your happiness in the end. Even a justice system doesn't do a whole lot to prevent crime, it only exists after the crime as been committed so bad things will happen anyway, even though there is a punishment. It requires no empathy or morality, it only exploits our natural instinct to avoid pain, something any animal would do.

In Christianity you don't even need to be a good person as long as you accept Jesus as your savior...like literally you can be a genocidal maniac and still go to Heaven just because you're a Christian.

We should be the best versions of ourselves regardless because it's the right thing to do. If you can't do the right thing you require empathy, not faith. All the faith in the world won't convince a bad person to suddenly turn into a good person. There is not one solid study or evidence anywhere that shows religious people are better or more likely to make good choices, so what's the point? It's just not necessary.

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10-01-2017, 02:56 PM
RE: Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
I keep finding myself asking, just what in the hell is heaven? Consider

Because total eternal bliss version just can't be true. Eternity and boredom alone would negate that, but the fact that other souls would be burning in hell for eternity would do so even more for me. Then there's the part about feeding God's ego on my knees for eternity. It's sounds more like hell all the time.

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10-01-2017, 03:34 PM
RE: Sin & why anybody can enter heaven
Don't worry about it.

Jesus, God and "sins" are all just imaginary shit to keep the weak ones in line................

....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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