Sin
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-12-2013, 11:52 AM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 09:44 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 05:14 PM)Alla Wrote:  Of course. Adam died the same moment he broke the law. It calls spiritual death.
He also suffered physical death. Bible says that day can be a term for some kind of period of time. Prophet said that what for us 1000 years for God is 1 day. 930 years is less than 1000 years.

Apparently you don't pay attention to what's being said in the discussion.

Like I said before:
Book

Chapter

Verse


If the simple act of citing you sources and providing good evidence is something you have no desire of doing, then don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

Step up or step down.
Sure. Only when you ask I will give you Book, Chapter, Verse.
Spiritual death.
1 Tim 5:
6 but she that liveth in pleasure(sin) is DEAD while she liveth.
when Adam broke the law he became dead(died spiritually) while his physical body was alive.
It calls "second death" and Prophet of God mentions second death
Rev 20:
13 and dead were judged every man according to their works
14and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Second death is spiritual death.

About "day" and how long is the "day" according to God.
Prophet tells that when God says "day" nobody can know how long it is unless God reveals.
2 Peter chapter 3 Peter tells those who do not understand why God says that something is coming soon and nothing happens. Why "soon" is so LONG"?
8...be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Notice Peter didn't say that 1 day = 1000 years but AS. Which means that it may be very, very, very long. Nobody knows how long.
Adam lived 930 years. Sounds to me like one day(as 1000 years) with the Lord.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 12:08 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 10:13 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  If you really about care about a person's well-being, why would you not try to prevent that person from being harmed?

Or in this case, if you know that the mushroom is poisonous enough to kill someone, why would you put it out in the open where anyone could have easy and unlimited access to it?

Good questions.
My example with mushroom was only to show you that your choice is not my fault. I gave you info but I can not force you to obey me.
Now to your questions.
This is plan of God:
God wants all His children(including Adam and Eve) to become like Him and live with Him in His Kingdom. Prophets tell us about this many times in the Scriptures.
To be like God someone has to learn about good and evil first.
How is it possible? It is possible when someone lives in the world that there is an opportunity to learn about good and evil.
God can NOT put/place perfect man in the world where there is evil(including pains and death). Man has to be fallen or a sinner in order to be placed in this kind of world. Adam was placed in perfect world where there were all conditions for Adam to fall/to become imperfect by HIS OWN CHOICE.
Now when man fell by his own choice (thanks for all conditions that made this possible) he can learn about good and EVIL(including pain and death).
Only after men learns about good and evil and makes RIGHT choices between good and evil he has an opportunity to become like God.
NOBODY can become like God without having KNOWLEDGE of good and EVIL.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 12:09 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 05:31 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 05:05 PM)Impulse Wrote:  No, the true analogy is you sinned and that's why I sent the dogs to attack you.
Wrong. You sinned that is why you can learn about good and evil and become like Gods.
No, the role I was playing in the analogy was essentially God who I think even you will admit did not sin. So the proper analogy is neither did I.

(10-12-2013 05:31 PM)Alla Wrote:  It is good to be gods. it is better to become like Gods.
Garden of Eden forever is good but there is something much better. To get there(to a better place) you have to learn about good and evil.
You're telling me how it is (at least in your view), not how it should be. God could easily send you to the "better place" without you having to learn about good and evil. Because he's God!

(10-12-2013 05:31 PM)Alla Wrote:  I thank Father Adam and Mother Eve for making right choice. Because of them I could come to this Earth(to have physical body) and learn good and evil(become like Gods)
Statements like this reveal your complete ignorance of your own faith. By your own faith, you came to this Earth not because of Adam and Eve, but because of God. As for their choice, if it was "right", it wouldn't have been forbidden by God. Sorry, but that's just common sense. Rolleyes God didn't want them to know about evil. That's supposedly why he forbade them to eat the fruit. They were supposed to have "heaven" on Earth where everything was just perfect in the same way as we now think of "heaven", but they screwed it all up because they ate the forbidden fruit. If you think that was the "right choice", then you're making up your own faith and it makes no sense at all.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 12:15 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 10:21 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 10:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't know what you are talking about. Being more specific would be very helpful.
I wasn't referring to any one specific thing, but rather to the Bible's contradictory nature.


(10-12-2013 10:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  If I tell you not to eat poisonous mushroom because it causes death and you choose to eat and die do I punish you? or do I give you instruction?
You chose to eat, you died. It calls consequence. If God didn't tell Adam/didn't give him info God would be evil.

Okay, so death is a consequence, but what about all those other things that were doled out in addition to death (increased childbearing pains, having to work the land, etc)? They weren't given as part of the warning in Genesis 2, yet God saw fit to inflict them on everyone. You earlier said that God didn't punish Eve with the increased pain in childbearing. If it wasn't a punishment, what was it?
God doesn't give all info at one time if you noticed from the Scriptures.
He also didn't tell them anything about repentance before fall. They wouldn't understand what sin is. Now when Eve partook of the fruit and she was able to have children she had to learn MORE/new info. Childbirth is painful. Before fall she couldn't have children so why to talk about pain of childbirth? And would she even understand what pain is?
Pain(EVIL) is what Eve chose to learn about. She got it. And she can learn to become like God.
And this is a GREAT BLESSING - to have more true knowledge and to become like Gods.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 12:21 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 11:37 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 10:21 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I wasn't referring to any one specific thing, but rather to the Bible's contradictory nature.
That chart cracks me up. The very first one given can't be shown to be a contradiction.

Which one? the "who created the world" one?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 12:22 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 12:09 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 05:31 PM)Alla Wrote:  It is good to be gods. it is better to become like Gods.
Garden of Eden forever is good but there is something much better. To get there(to a better place) you have to learn about good and evil.
You're telling me how it is (at least in your view), not how it should be. God could easily send you to the "better place" without you having to learn about good and evil. Because he's God!
Sure He could. But then I can not to become like Him. Gods KNOW about good and evil from Their experience and that is why They became Gods. The only way to become like Gods/or Gods is to learn about good and evil and that is how we can have an opportunity to make a choice between good and evil. By making right choices I am LEARNING to be like one of Them.

Questions to you: how do you think Gods know about good and EVIL?
Pretend you are God how can YOU(God) know that pain it is something bad? Don't you have to feel it at least once?

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 12:25 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 09:51 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 07:07 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  You say......"It would make Him evil if He punished them. He gave them a choice and no matter what choice they would make they wouldn't be punished".

Bible says.....
To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

If this isn't god punishing Eve for eating the apple then you have a sick mind.
I already responded to this. Pains of child birth is not a punishment. It is knowledge of evil. Adam and Eve chose on their own to learn about good and evil. Pain is evil and they could learn about pain. All kinds of pain.

Where did God say that He punishes them? But God said that men became like one of Us - men can learn about good and EVIL.
Where did God say he punishes them?

Genesis, Chapter 3
Quote:13 The LORD God then asked the woman, "Why did you do such a thing?" The woman answered, "The serpent tricked me into it, so I ate it."
14 Then the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, you shall be banned from all the animals and from all the wild creatures; On your belly shall you crawl, and dirt shall you eat all the days of your life.
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."
16 To the woman he said: "I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master."
While it doesn't directly say God punished Eve, it's frankly reading comprehension 101 when God asks Eve "Why did you do such a thing" and the next thing he has to say to her after her answer is "I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master."

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 12:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 12:09 PM)Impulse Wrote:  You're telling me how it is (at least in your view), not how it should be. God could easily send you to the "better place" without you having to learn about good and evil. Because he's God!
Sure He could. But then I can not to become like Him. Gods KNOW about good and evil from Their experience and that is why They became Gods. The only way to become like Gods/or Gods is to learn about good and evil and that is how we can have an opportunity to make a choice between good and evil. By making right choices I am LEARNING to be like one of Them.
You cannot become like him anyway. Drinking Beverage

(11-12-2013 12:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  Questions to you: how do you think Gods know about good and EVIL?
Pretend you are God how can YOU(God) know that pain it is something bad? Don't you have to feel it at least once?
I don't believe in God so there is no God to know anything. But, if I pretend I am God as you requested, I would know because I would know everything - automatically, not by learning. Automatically by the very essence of my perfect being.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 04:04 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 04:02 PM)Impulse Wrote:  My what a tangled web we weave! If you didn't need to be saved, you wouldn't care about knowing him as a savior. And why is it that you need to be saved? Oh yeah, because God put you and everyone else in that position (by your own account). If I sent a bunch of dogs to attack you and then ran over and saved you from them after they chewed your hands off, would I also be your hero? Consider

But if God didn't create us so that we needed to be saved from him then he wouldn't have had to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself for being the way he made us.

Checkmate, atheists!

Thought you might appreciate this:
[Image: ad5a215f.jpg]

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WitchSabrina's post
11-12-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 12:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  Gods KNOW about good and evil from Their experience and that is why They became Gods.
Does this mean that before they had experience they weren't gods?
If this is the case then how did existence come to be?
Because it can't have been created by a god, because there was nothing prior thus no experience to be had.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: