Sin
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11-12-2013, 12:31 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 11:52 AM)Alla Wrote:  About "day" and how long is the "day" according to God.
Prophet tells that when God says "day" nobody can know how long it is unless God reveals.

So, when God says "day", everyone might as well ignore what he's saying, since what he's saying can't be interpreted in any meaningful way. At least, not until after any particular event happens, and then scripture can be reread with the word "day" interpreted in such a way as to retroactively prove a point.

While I can't prove you wrong, this is a perfect example of not even wrong. That's functionally identical to me saying "On May 25, 2014, a great king will fall. Oh, and at some point in the future (not even before or on May 25), I will tell you what I actually mean by the words 'May 25, 2014', 'great king' and 'fall' mean". Sure, I might technically be correct in whatever I retroactively declare, but it certainly isn't a very useful way for conveying information.


(11-12-2013 12:15 PM)Alla Wrote:  God doesn't give all info at one time if you noticed from the Scriptures.
He also didn't tell them anything about repentance before fall. They wouldn't understand what sin is. Now when Eve partook of the fruit and she was able to have children she had to learn MORE/new info. Childbirth is painful. Before fall she couldn't have children so why to talk about pain of childbirth? And would she even understand what pain is?
Pain(EVIL) is what Eve chose to learn about. She got it. And she can learn to become like God.
And this is a GREAT BLESSING - to have more true knowledge and to become like Gods.

Where does it say that Eve couldn't have children before eating the fruit? God explicitly says that he will increase her child-bearing pains, which means childbirth and the pain associated would have already existed. It increased in reaction to her doing the one thing he told her not to. When he called her out on this, he stated as much. This sounds like a punishment.

Also, wait. We've been blessed by original sin?
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11-12-2013, 12:33 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 12:21 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Which one? the "who created the world" one?
No, if you click on "See full list," this is the first one:
http://bibviz.com/how-many-men-did-the-c...l-sab.html
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11-12-2013, 12:45 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 12:31 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Where does it say that Eve couldn't have children before eating the fruit? God explicitly says that he will increase her child-bearing pains, which means childbirth and the pain associated would have already existed.
Ha, good catch! Yeah, God said "be fruitful and multiply", but then Eve couldn't have children? Consider

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-12-2013, 01:01 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 12:30 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 12:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  Gods KNOW about good and evil from Their experience and that is why They became Gods.
Does this mean that before they had experience they weren't gods?
Before Gods became Gods They were gods(humans like us)
Before God Son/Jesus got His God and Father's glory He was human like us.
How do you think Gods know what pain and death are?

(11-12-2013 12:30 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If this is the case then how did existence come to be?
existence of what?
(11-12-2013 12:30 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Because it can't have been created by a god, because there was nothing prior thus no experience to be had.
who says this? where did you get this strange info?

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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11-12-2013, 01:05 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 12:45 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 12:31 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Where does it say that Eve couldn't have children before eating the fruit? God explicitly says that he will increase her child-bearing pains, which means childbirth and the pain associated would have already existed.
Ha, good catch! Yeah, God said "be fruitful and multiply", but then Eve couldn't have children? Consider

Aha! God was jealous of Adam! Eve was to have immaculate conception, meaning god was gonna be the daddy. Because they didn't know about sex until they ate the magic apple, right?

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11-12-2013, 01:14 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 12:45 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 12:31 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Where does it say that Eve couldn't have children before eating the fruit? God explicitly says that he will increase her child-bearing pains, which means childbirth and the pain associated would have already existed.
Ha, good catch! Yeah, God said "be fruitful and multiply", but then Eve couldn't have children? Consider
Yes. God gave to commandments:
1)multiply and replenish the earth
2)not to partake of fruit
If God gave this commandment that they could have a choice:
what should we do? obey first commandment by breaking the second? or should we obey the second by breaking the first?
it is not possible to have children without breaking 2nd commandment.
This is the point:
1)Adam and Eve have to learn about good and EVIL to become like Gods.
2)Only imperfect people can be subject to evil(pain, suffering, death, etc)
3)How can perfect man become imperfect? Answer: He has to break at least one law.
4)God gave them the law that it was very tempting to break (for Eve). Fruit was pleasant to the eye and to be wise is very great idea.
5)Adam was not tempted according to the Bible. But he made a choice: to become fallen that he could have children. God told him to leave his father and cleave unto his wife. Adam did what God said to do.
Adam also chose to know good and evil to become like one of Gods(Them)
That is what God wants us to be become.
He wants we to have a desire to be/to become like Him knowing good and evil.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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11-12-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 01:14 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 12:45 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Ha, good catch! Yeah, God said "be fruitful and multiply", but then Eve couldn't have children? Consider
Yes. God gave to commandments:
1)multiply and replenish the earth
2)not to partake of fruit
If God gave this commandment that they could have a choice:
what should we do? obey first commandment by breaking the second? or should we obey the second by breaking the first?
it is not possible to have children without breaking 2nd commandment.
This is the point:
1)Adam and Eve have to learn about good and EVIL to become like Gods.
2)Only imperfect people can be subject to evil(pain, suffering, death, etc)
3)How can perfect man become imperfect? Answer: He has to break at least one law.
4)God gave them the law that it was very tempting to break (for Eve). Fruit was pleasant to the eye and to be wise is very great idea.
5)Adam was not tempted according to the Bible. But he made a choice: to become fallen that he could have children. God told him to leave his father and cleave unto his wife. Adam did what God said to do.
Adam also chose to know good and evil to become like one of Gods(Them)
That is what God wants us to be become.
He wants we to have a desire to be/to become like Him knowing good and evil.
I respectfully differ with you on point number one. Mankind does not need to learn about good and evil to be like God.
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11-12-2013, 02:02 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 12:31 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 11:52 AM)Alla Wrote:  About "day" and how long is the "day" according to God.
Prophet tells that when God says "day" nobody can know how long it is unless God reveals.
So, when God says "day", everyone might as well ignore what he's saying, since what he's saying can't be interpreted in any meaningful way. At least, not until after any particular event happens, and then scripture can be reread with the word "day" interpreted in such a way as to retroactively prove a point.
You may ignore if you don't know or don't understand. But there are Prophets who can explain. And there is Holy Ghost Who can testify/reveal what SYMBOL like "day" means.
One day of creation can be 24 hours, can be 100 days, can be 1000 years, can be 1 million years or 5 billion years. Nobody can know until God reveals.
God didn't reveal. Those who say that one day of creation is 24 hours HOW do they know?
Those who say it is 1000 years HOW do they know?

(11-12-2013 12:30 PM)Stevil Wrote:  While I can't prove you wrong, this is a perfect example of not even wrong. That's functionally identical to me saying "On May 25, 2014, a great king will fall. Oh, and at some point in the future (not even before or on May 25), I will tell you what I actually mean by the words 'May 25, 2014', 'great king' and 'fall' mean". Sure, I might technically be correct in whatever I retroactively declare, but it certainly isn't a very useful way for conveying information.
Prophets never set exact dates. God doesn't set exact date for the reason.

(11-12-2013 12:30 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Where does it say that Eve couldn't have children before eating the fruit? God explicitly says that he will increase her child-bearing pains, which means childbirth and the pain associated would have already existed.
It increased in reaction to her doing the one thing he told her not to. When he called her out on this, he stated as much. This sounds like a punishment.
They didn't have blood. Bible says that "no flesh and BLOOD" can enter God's Kingdom. Before fall Adam and Eve lived in God's Kingdom that is why they could see His glory. They could literally see God.
So, Adam and Eve had no blood. NO flesh and blood can enter God's Kingdom.

When Jesus resurrected He said that His body was "flesh and bones", not "flesh and blood"
When Adam and Eve partook of fruit I assume some kind of chemical reaction happen and whatever their had in their veins turned to blood. Blood makes us MORTAL.
Gods do NOT have blood in Their veins.
About increasing of pain. What you say makes sense. God said that He will increase sorrow and conception. May be Eve already felt sorrow/pain when her body started to change to mortal state? And God told her that she will feel even greater pain when she is pregnant and gives birth to children?
I am not sure.

(11-12-2013 12:30 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Also, wait. We've been blessed by original sin?
We were not blessed by sin. We were blessed that Adam chose to obey more important law - multiply and replenish the earth instead of not partaking of the fruit.
Remember there are two great commandments:
1)love God
2)love neighbor
Remember Martha and Maria? Martha chose to obey 2nd commandment that evening by serving/loving others - cooked dinner for the hungry.
But Maria chose to obey 1st commandment that evening - she was listening to God/His words.
Martha complained. But Jesus let her know that if she chose to obey 2nd commandment instead of the first she doesn't have to blame Martha for choosing obey the 1st commandment.
Jesus didn't blame Martha for not obeying 1st commandment that evening and He didn't blame Maria for not obeying 2nd commandment - love thy neighbor(serve/feed the hungry)

Adam chose 1st commandment and God didn't blame him for breaking the second.
PAINS are EVIL. Adam chose to know about EVIL(pains). Eve did the same.
God gave to Adam and Eve what they chose.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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11-12-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 01:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  I respectfully differ with you on point number one. Mankind does not need to learn about good and evil to be like God.
Thus says the Lord: "Behold, the man is becoming as one of us, to know good and evil.
So, Adam became as one of them(Gods) only when he had an opportunity to know good and evil.

What does mankind need to become like God/Gods?

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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11-12-2013, 02:14 PM
RE: Sin
Creation myths are very similar in many parts of the world. The bible certainly doesn't have a corner market on this story.






This is the Maori creation myth told in sand art. Talented artist!





I'm not trying to change the subject, only pointing out how people the world over tell the same stories about god and creation. When christians begin to realize just how similar their story is with, say, an Aborigine from Australia maybe they won't get so self-satisfied and cocky about this nonsense. I doubt it but there's always hope.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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