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11-12-2013, 02:35 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 02:14 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Creation myths are very similar in many parts of the world. The bible certainly doesn't have a corner market on this story.

I'm not trying to change the subject, only pointing out how people the world over tell the same stories about god and creation. When christians begin to realize just how similar their story is with, say, an Aborigine from Australia maybe they won't get so self-satisfied and cocky about this nonsense. I doubt it but there's always hope.
You're not considering it from a literal Genesis model. Similarity of origins stories fits well with such a model.
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11-12-2013, 02:40 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 02:14 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Creation myths are very similar in many parts of the world. The bible certainly doesn't have a corner market on this story.

I am not surprised.
Noah had three sons. They had a religion. Ham fell. He started to teach his children new religion by keeping some truth.
One source but different messengers(some of them are Prophets and some are NOT). This is why there are different religions with similar parts.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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11-12-2013, 02:46 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2013 03:33 PM by childeye.)
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 02:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 01:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  I respectfully differ with you on point number one. Mankind does not need to learn about good and evil to be like God.
Thus says the Lord: "Behold, the man is becoming as one of us, to know good and evil.
So, Adam became as one of them(Gods) only when he had an opportunity to know good and evil.

What does mankind need to become like God/Gods?
The description above of "man becoming (has become like one of us)", is referring to the knowledge of good and evil or having their eyes opened, not to godliness. One not need know evil to be like unto God in Spirit or Character. This is made apparent since it is God who brought forth the tree of knowledge when He planted the garden. He therefore precedes its existence even as He spoke Light into the void and called it good.

God didn't need the knowledge to be God. Man therefore never needed the knowledge to become like God. That is the subtlety of the serpents deception or ignorance in vanity. The fact is that mankind was already like God being sentient according to God's Spirit of Life which He breathed into us. Love is the Life and goodness in mankind, and the knowing of good and evil is not what makes mankind good or godly. But mankind was made open to such a doubt in one's self when it was subtly implied that he wasn't like God, as if he was missing something. Hence the woman was beguiled and the man didn't trust in his own better judgment. And that is why it is properly called the fall of mankind because they already were like God.
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11-12-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: Sin
double post.
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11-12-2013, 03:30 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 01:14 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 12:45 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Ha, good catch! Yeah, God said "be fruitful and multiply", but then Eve couldn't have children? Consider
Yes. God gave to commandments:
1)multiply and replenish the earth
2)not to partake of fruit
If God gave this commandment that they could have a choice:
what should we do? obey first commandment by breaking the second? or should we obey the second by breaking the first?
it is not possible to have children without breaking 2nd commandment.
This is the point:
1)Adam and Eve have to learn about good and EVIL to become like Gods.
2)Only imperfect people can be subject to evil(pain, suffering, death, etc)
3)How can perfect man become imperfect? Answer: He has to break at least one law.
4)God gave them the law that it was very tempting to break (for Eve). Fruit was pleasant to the eye and to be wise is very great idea.
5)Adam was not tempted according to the Bible. But he made a choice: to become fallen that he could have children. God told him to leave his father and cleave unto his wife. Adam did what God said to do.
Adam also chose to know good and evil to become like one of Gods(Them)
That is what God wants us to be become.
He wants we to have a desire to be/to become like Him knowing good and evil.
Seriously now, you're just making stuff up. Drinking Beverage

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-12-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 02:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 01:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  I respectfully differ with you on point number one. Mankind does not need to learn about good and evil to be like God.
Thus says the Lord: "Behold, the man is becoming as one of us, to know good and evil.
So, Adam became as one of them(Gods) only when he had an opportunity to know good and evil.
The meaning of that verse (Genesis 3:22) is that Adam and Eve did not previously know sin (evil), they only knew good. God on the other hand knew and knows both (say believers anyway). Therefore, when Adam and Eve sinned and became aware of evil, they had that little tiny bit in common with God so they were like him in that sense. That's a far cry from stating that learning about good and evil makes you like God. That monstrous leap is completely ludicrous. That's like saying because my body contains salt, I am "like the ocean". Really? I'm a liquid? I have fish swimming around in me? I have earthquakes occurring on my "floor" (wherever that is)? Yeah, didn't think so...

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-12-2013, 06:40 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 02:40 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 02:14 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Creation myths are very similar in many parts of the world. The bible certainly doesn't have a corner market on this story.

I am not surprised.
Noah had three sons. They had a religion. Ham fell. He started to teach his children new religion by keeping some truth.
One source but different messengers(some of them are Prophets and some are NOT). This is why there are different religions with similar parts.


Alla, that's complete bullshit. You've been fed a pack of lies and what's sad is that you don't even realize it.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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11-12-2013, 06:44 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2013 09:08 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 02:40 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 02:14 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Creation myths are very similar in many parts of the world. The bible certainly doesn't have a corner market on this story.

I am not surprised.
Noah had three sons. They had a religion. Ham fell. He started to teach his children new religion by keeping some truth.
One source but different messengers (some of them are Prophets and some are NOT). This is why there are different religions with similar parts.

Noah was a complete myth, as was Abraham, and Moses, and Adam. The entire thing (flood) was "appropriated" from the Epic of Gilgamesh. There was no world-wide flood. There are MANY ways to prove that. Obviously you have NO CLUE about the actual history of world religions, and how and where and why they arose. No "one source". What's the deal with you preaching that ignorant fundie crap here ? What is your education level ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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11-12-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 02:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 02:07 PM)Alla Wrote:  Thus says the Lord: "Behold, the man is becoming as one of us, to know good and evil.
So, Adam became as one of them(Gods) only when he had an opportunity to know good and evil.

What does mankind need to become like God/Gods?
The description above of "man becoming (has become like one of us)", is referring to the knowledge of good and evil or having their eyes opened, not to godliness.
How do you know this? What is godliness in your definition?
(11-12-2013 02:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  One not need know evil to be like unto God in Spirit or Character.
In order to be like God I have to know what righteousness is. Without knowing what evil(sin) is I can not know what righteousness is. That is why God never mentioned sin or righteousness to Adam and Eve.

(11-12-2013 02:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  This is made apparent since it is God who brought forth the tree of knowledge when He planted the garden. He therefore precedes its existence even as He spoke Light into the void and called it good.
I am sorry, I don't understand what you have said.

(11-12-2013 02:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  God didn't need the knowledge to be God.
Did God say this? or who says this?

(11-12-2013 02:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  Man therefore never needed the knowledge to become like God. That is the subtlety of the serpents deception or ignorance in vanity.
These words of serpent were the truth not deception. God confirmed. Man became as one of us knowing good and evil. Gods know good and evil. And man became like on of them by knowing good and evil.

(11-12-2013 02:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  The fact is that mankind was already like God being sentient according to God's Spirit of Life which He breathed into us.
That is not what God said. Man was created in the image and likeness of God but he became like one of them only after partaking of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.

(11-12-2013 02:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  Love is the Life and goodness in mankind, and the knowing of good and evil is not what makes mankind good or godly.
without knowing what bad/evil is you can not understand that good is good.


(11-12-2013 02:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  But mankind was made open to such a doubt in one's self when it was subtly implied that he wasn't like God, as if he was missing something.
When and where did God say this?


(11-12-2013 02:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  Hence the woman was beguiled and the man didn't trust in his own better judgment. And that is why it is properly called the fall of mankind because they already were like God.
When did Adam say that he didn't trust in his own better judgment?

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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11-12-2013, 07:37 PM
RE: Sin
(11-12-2013 06:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 02:40 PM)Alla Wrote:  I am not surprised.
Noah had three sons. They had a religion. Ham fell. He started to teach his children new religion by keeping some truth.
One source but different messengers (some of them are Prophets and some are NOT). This is why there are different religions with similar parts.

Noah was a complete myth, and was Abraham, and Moses, and Adam. The entire thing (flood) was "appropriated" from the Epic of Gilgamesh. There was no world-wide flood. There are MANY ways to prove that. Obviously you have NO CLUE about the actual history of world religions, and how and where and why they arose. No "one source". What's the deal with you preaching that ignorant fundie crap here ? What is your education level ?

Bucky Ball, this is someone who is completely devoid of curiosity. It's been my experience that people without curiosity remain shuttered, ignorant and unschooled in anything except what what's been fed to them. What's worse is that I find this type of person uninteresting and boring. To me there is no excuse for being dull. It's just dreadful.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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