Sin
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10-12-2013, 02:30 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 12:19 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Have you read the bible?
may be.
(10-12-2013 12:19 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
OK. Serpent is cursed. Punished.

(10-12-2013 12:19 PM)Stevil Wrote:  To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
Where does it say that it is the punishment? As I said before Eve knew from the serpent that she can become like Gods knowing good and EVIL IF she partakes of the fruit. She made her choice - to know about good and EVIL.
Child birth PAIN is PART of the EVIL that she had to learn about. So, where does it say in the Bible that to learn about all kinds of evil(including pain) is punishment from God and not what Eve chose: to know/learn about EVIL(pain) and good(pleasure)?

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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10-12-2013, 02:32 PM
RE: Sin
The idea of sin is just religious nonsense which is meant to make you feel guilty.

to accept the idea of sin first you'd have to accept that God or some kind of authority exists which judges you after you die(very unlikely)

Religion tells us that God is perfect,If this is true then it could hardly be logical for Gods creations to be considered to be anything less than perfect.

Why is there so much imperfection around huh ?? if God is so incompetent in creating a system which isn't what he desired then he's incompetent unless of course you are saying that God chose to create us imperfect then in that case punishing us is not really fair.

If we are perfect creations of a perfect God then Nothing that we can ever do could possibly change this perfection that God willed, unless we were so powerful that our choices could override and change the will of God

How likely is it that we the creation could be more powerful than the creator ?? I personally find this idea somewhat amusing, and a bit absurd.
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10-12-2013, 02:35 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 01:55 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 01:47 PM)anonymous66 Wrote:  LOL. But, how would you define sin? It seems like a moot point, if you reject the supernatural (which I do).


FCUK - you're accurate. Shocking*pout* Well thanks heaps for spoiling my post.


(stomps off looking for chocolate)

Oopsy.

*walks away embarrassed*
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10-12-2013, 02:36 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 12:31 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Where in the Bible does it say that Adam and Eve were originally immortal and then became mortal due to sin? Drinking Beverage
Bible says that death is result of the sin. If they(Adam and Eve) never sinned they would never have result - death. Death can not enter when there is no sin.
As God said that they would die the same day they partake of the fruit they did die the same day.
And that was part of God's plan of salvation or plan of happiness. Fall of Adam is part of the plan of God. It is a blessing. If Adam didn't fall he wouldn't have children.

English is not my native language.
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10-12-2013, 02:43 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 02:32 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Religion tells us that God is perfect,If this is true then it could hardly be logical for Gods creations to be considered to be anything less than perfect.
His Creation are perfect. But perfection can be destroyed. Make a perfect shape. It will be perfect until something destroys it. Adam was perfect when he was created.

(10-12-2013 02:32 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Why is there so much imperfection around huh ??
Because Adam chose to learn about evil and good. Imperfection is part of evil. Adam had to learn about this evil, too. It was his choice.
Because it must be opposition in all things.

(10-12-2013 02:32 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  if God is so incompetent in creating a system which isn't what he desired then he's incompetent unless of course you are saying that God chose to create us imperfect then in that case punishing us is not really fair.
He created perfect Adam and Eve and gave them freedom to become imperfect and that was His plan.

(10-12-2013 02:32 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  How likely is it that we the creation could be more powerful than the creator ?? I personally find this idea somewhat amusing, and a bit absurd.
We are not more powerful. God's plan worked. Adam fell.

English is not my native language.
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10-12-2013, 02:49 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 01:20 PM)anonymous66 Wrote:  but, as an atheist (about a year) I sometimes wonder what to do with the guilt I feel when I do things that are against my moral code. It was comforting to pray to God and honestly confess my sins, but I don't have that outlet anymore. Anyone else know what I'm talking about?
I know what you are talking about. When you feel guilt the right thing to do is to make it right if possible. Even if you don't believe in God He is very happy when you want to do what is right.
If you stole confess to the person from whom you stole, say that you are sorry and give back what you took and guilt will be GONE. You will be FREE from this sin(this wrong doing). You are forgiven of this sin(this wrong doing)
Easy?

English is not my native language.
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10-12-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 02:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  He created perfect Adam and Eve and gave them freedom to become imperfect and that was His plan.

(10-12-2013 02:32 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  How likely is it that we the creation could be more powerful than the creator ?? I personally find this idea somewhat amusing, and a bit absurd.
We are not more powerful. God's plan worked. Adam fell.

I'm wondering where you get this from? To say that the fall of man was part of God's plan implies that God went through the trouble of creation and making man in His image just to watch them fail. Why would He do that? Salvation is about bringing us back into the original relationship with God so why would He plan for that to be disturbed in the first place?
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10-12-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 02:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 02:32 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Religion tells us that God is perfect,If this is true then it could hardly be logical for Gods creations to be considered to be anything less than perfect.
His Creation are perfect. But perfection can be destroyed. Make a perfect shape. It will be perfect until something destroys it. Adam was perfect when he was created.

(10-12-2013 02:32 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Why is there so much imperfection around huh ??
Because Adam chose to learn about evil and good. Imperfection is part of evil. Adam had to learn about this evil, too. It was his choice.
Because it must be opposition in all things.

(10-12-2013 02:32 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  if God is so incompetent in creating a system which isn't what he desired then he's incompetent unless of course you are saying that God chose to create us imperfect then in that case punishing us is not really fair.
He created perfect Adam and Eve and gave them freedom to become imperfect and that was His plan.

(10-12-2013 02:32 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  How likely is it that we the creation could be more powerful than the creator ?? I personally find this idea somewhat amusing, and a bit absurd.
We are not more powerful. God's plan worked. Adam fell.

Ah. So then, Alla, original sin come down to the "free will" problem and the paradox that always follows. Which god do you worship, the omniscience or omnipotent god? Or does your deity possess both powers? Or aren't you allowed to understand your god in this manner?

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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10-12-2013, 03:28 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 04:04 PM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 02:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  His Creation are perfect.
OH REALLY ?? like this ?




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That's some damn perfect creations right there! i'd hate to see what kind of sadistic freak "Perfectly" designs these things!
Quote:But perfection can be destroyed.
There is no such thing as perfection.
Quote:Adam was perfect when he was created.
Bullsh!t! in what sense is that perfection ??

Human body as we know it is NOT perfect and adam is constantly portrayed as a bipedal human which is not perfect.

You'd have to provide me a case on how adam was "Perfect"
Quote:Because Adam chose to learn about evil and good.
no offense but that's retarded !! how can one person's mistake hold every human being accountable ? that's BEYOND STUPID!

That's like saying if i kill someone my son should also be equally convicted for MY crime ! HOW FAIR IS THAT EXACTLY ?

And how exactly is learning about Good&Evil something bad ? having knowledge is something "Good" NOT "evil" if you don't know that knives are sharp then you'd cut yourself! knowing about stuff makes you human!

Even then when did adam exactly had anything to do with this ? it was God's plan all along ! if you're saying that God was unable to foresee that adam would've done this perhaps HE SHOULD NOT HAVE given him the choice! unless God wanted that to happen which i presume he did.
Quote:He created perfect Adam and Eve and gave them freedom to become imperfect and that was His plan.
No he didn't give them "Freedom" exactly they didn't know the repercussions of doing whatever they did and even if they did holding entire humanity accountable for that is beyond retarded.
Quote:We are not more powerful. God's plan worked. Adam fell.
So then that was God's plan all along ?? God IS MALEVOLENT ? God wants us to suffer ? what an asshole God !
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10-12-2013, 03:34 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 03:21 PM)Yasmin Wrote:  I'm wondering where you get this from? To say that the fall of man was part of God's plan implies that God went through the trouble of creation and making man in His image just to watch them fail. Why would He do that? Salvation is about bringing us back into the original relationship with God so why would He plan for that to be disturbed in the first place?
To make a more complete revelation of himself - to let us know him more fully. For example, I wouldn't know God as savior if I never needed to be saved.
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