Sin
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10-12-2013, 09:51 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 07:07 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  You say......"It would make Him evil if He punished them. He gave them a choice and no matter what choice they would make they wouldn't be punished".

Bible says.....
To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

If this isn't god punishing Eve for eating the apple then you have a sick mind.
I already responded to this. Pains of child birth is not a punishment. It is knowledge of evil. Adam and Eve chose on their own to learn about good and evil. Pain is evil and they could learn about pain. All kinds of pain.

Where did God say that He punishes them? But God said that men became like one of Us - men can learn about good and EVIL.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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10-12-2013, 10:01 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 08:22 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  In all fairness, it teaches a lot of contradictory thing, so it likely teaches things you don't does it does too.
I don't know what you are talking about. Being more specific would be very helpful.

(10-12-2013 08:22 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Is the whole sin = death thing not a punishment? Before they sinned, there was no death, and the Bible says numerous places that sin causes death.

If I tell you not to eat poisonous mushroom because it causes death and you choose to eat and die do I punish you? or do I give you instruction?
You chose to eat, you died. It calls consequence. If God didn't tell Adam/didn't give him info God would be evil.

English is not my native language.
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10-12-2013, 10:13 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 10:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 08:22 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Is the whole sin = death thing not a punishment? Before they sinned, there was no death, and the Bible says numerous places that sin causes death.

If I tell you not to eat poisonous mushroom because it causes death and you choose to eat and die do I punish you? or do I give you instruction?
You chose to eat, you died. It calls consequence. If God didn't tell Adam/didn't give him info God would be evil.

If you really about care about a person's well-being, why would you not try to prevent that person from being harmed?

Or in this case, if you know that the mushroom is poisonous enough to kill someone, why would you put it out in the open where anyone could have easy and unlimited access to it?
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10-12-2013, 10:35 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 10:13 PM)NoSuicide4Me Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 10:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  If I tell you not to eat poisonous mushroom because it causes death and you choose to eat and die do I punish you? or do I give you instruction?
You chose to eat, you died. It calls consequence. If God didn't tell Adam/didn't give him info God would be evil.

If you really about care about a person's well-being, why would you not try to prevent that person from being harmed?

Or in this case, if you know that the mushroom is poisonous enough to kill someone, why would you put it out in the open where anyone could have easy and unlimited access to it?

Because this is a god who likes to cause problems for people. When my kids were little I put a safety thing on our stove top to keep my kids from reaching up and possibly burning their hands. This particular god doesn't do stuff like that.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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10-12-2013, 11:15 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 04:57 PM)Alla Wrote:  That is why God do not punish Adam and Eve for partaking of the fruit and He doesn't punish us(their posterity) for this.
By breaking one law they kept another. And they kept MORE important law.
They made RIGHT choice. God wanted them to keep FIRST commandment - multiply and replenish and learn about good and evil that ALL of us can become like Gods.

You are pulling this out of your ass.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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10-12-2013, 11:41 PM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 10:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  If I tell you not to eat poisonous mushroom because it causes death and you choose to eat and die do I punish you? or do I give you instruction?
You chose to eat, you died. It calls consequence. If God didn't tell Adam/didn't give him info God would be evil.
Stupid fucking analogy. If I set a trap for you and you fall into it, *I* am to blame. That's what your fairy-tale monster does in your fairy-tale story.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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11-12-2013, 12:02 AM
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 02:30 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 12:19 PM)Stevil Wrote:  To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
Where does it say that it is the punishment?
It is a continuance from the same sentence/paragraph where the god was punishing the snake.

Imagine this. Two children playing in the house they break the TV.
Mum says to little Thomas
"Because you have done this Cursed are you above all my children, ...
To little Johnnie She said
"I will make your pain in sitting down very severe"

Why do you think Mum is giving Johnnie pain? Is it as punishment or is it because Johnnie choose to have pain?
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11-12-2013, 12:06 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2013 12:14 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Sin
The damn myth was a common myth in the ancient Near east. It had nothing to do with ingesting apples. What they were fascinated with, was chaos and order. (See ALL the Sumerian myths ... Marduk. What the fuck did Marduk "slay" ? The Dragon of Chaos, whose name was Tiamet). What was the name of the damn tree ? The "tree of the KNOWLEDGE of (BOTH) good AND evil). An attempt to "encompass" *opposites*. That's "chaos", (retold in the Hebrew myth). Only a deity could "encompass opposites". Humans must make choices. The sin was not eating the apple, but the attempt to attain divine status, (and "know" both). Take some fucking Comparative Mythology for fuck sake.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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11-12-2013, 08:03 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2013 08:11 AM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Sin
(10-12-2013 04:53 PM)Alla Wrote:  after God dedicated Earth on the seventh day and before Fall of Adam Earth was perfect.
Except all the other innocent animals had NOTHING to do with adam eating a stupid apple!

you're saying as if God had everything horrible and unforgivable at standby for "Just in case" scenario if adam ate one stupid fruit.

That has to be THE BIGGEST overreaction in the history of the universe
Quote:Natural laws are beautiful and perfect. Oh, and we don't have to like them. Perfect doesn't have to be liked.
Wrong.. what you consider isn't "perfect" natural laws are arbitrary and chaotic they can only be classified under "imperfect"

Oh i'm sorry i just don't get how a malaria virus is "perfect" or how a disgusting bot fly is anymore "perfectly" designed, your willful ignorance is astounding.

Quote:in a sense that everything that obeys natural laws or God's judicial laws is perfect.
God of the bible is NOT perfect he's a jealous,petty,pathetic,misogynistic,hateful,feudalistic,barbaric,psychotic,venge​ful character ! he's the single most evillest character i've ever had the misfortune to lay my eyes on.

if you're a deist then fine.... but if you're claiming that your God is the God from the bible then you'd have hard time justifying God's character.
Quote:God's creations obey natural laws. That is why they are perfect.
what ? that's like saying oranges are orange therefore they taste tangy ! that made no coherent sense to me whatsoever.
Quote:that was OUR CHOICE before we came on this Earth.
I had no choice before i was born my brain wasn't developed until like 5 months of pregnancy and it took like a year to develop my motor&cognitive skills.
Quote:Gods are those who know what good and evil is.
Then are other animals Gods too ?? they certainly know good from bad and stay away stuff that is harmful for them i'd call them "God" too.
Quote:How did He become God? He first learned to make choices by learning about good and evil.
To suffer is to learn about evil. By knowing evil we may know that good is good. By knowing good we may know that evil is evil
Why are you making so many baseless assumptions ? telling bad from good has nothing to do with God it has more to do with survival of your species.
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11-12-2013, 09:38 AM
RE: Sin
Quick and easy question. ... So Adam and Eve were perfect before eating the fruit, God told them not to partake of it and they did anyway. Therefore it follows ignoring God is perfection! Correct? Smile

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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