Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
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11-02-2013, 02:30 PM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
(11-02-2013 02:17 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:You want to play word games instead of having a discussion?
This from Mr. One Liner?
Okay, here it is, despite The Bearded One's contribution citing MORAL., not ethical, law... Smile
If you are a freethinker, you must allow for freedom of expression, if not free will...? Therefore, if someone wants to atone for sin or receive atonement for sin, who are you to say you are offended. You're really against freedom of expression, it sounds like...
That is a pretty absurd argument.
It is not possible for one person to atone for another's ethical failure.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-02-2013, 02:41 PM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
(11-02-2013 02:17 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:You want to play word games instead of having a discussion?
This from Mr. One Liner?
Okay, here it is, despite The Bearded One's contribution citing MORAL., not ethical, law... Smile
If you are a freethinker, you must allow for freedom of expression, if not free will...? Therefore, if someone wants to atone for sin or receive atonement for sin, who are you to say you are offended. You're really against freedom of expression, it sounds like...


What's the difference?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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11-02-2013, 02:55 PM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
That is also not the Bible view, that Jesus takes the "blame" for what I did. It says He paid the price for what I did. And people are not in prison to atone for their crimes. They are in prison as 1) a punishment fitting their crime (the jurists' and judge's goal) 2) to hopefully be rehabilitated for their crimes but until 1) and 2) are achieved to 3) separate them from the general populace among whom they'd commit their crimes. The wicked CANNOT be in Heaven or it is a dystopia.

What will help un-confuse you, perhaps, is this analogy. An older brother sees a bully (sin) about to strike their younger sister, and steps in front and gets punched very hard.

The brother who loves will do so whether the sister intentionally or unintentionally angered the bully. Thank God, Jesus did this for everyone.

The problem with Atheists is IMO they are sitting there in moral judgment both of the younger sister and the bully while the sister is beaten. Their stance that scapegoating is reprehensible stems from pride and a distorted sense of ethics.

The brother who takes the beating is a loving brother.

"Love covers a multitude of sins."
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11-02-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
(11-02-2013 02:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  That is also not the Bible view, that Jesus takes the "blame" for what I did. It says He paid the price for what I did. And people are not in prison to atone for their crimes. They are in prison as 1) a punishment fitting their crime (the jurists' and judge's goal) 2) to hopefully be rehabilitated for their crimes but until 1) and 2) are achieved to 3) separate them from the general populace among whom they'd commit their crimes. The wicked CANNOT be in Heaven or it is a dystopia.

What will help un-confuse you, perhaps, is this analogy. An older brother sees a bully (sin) about to strike their younger sister, and steps in front and gets punched very hard.

The brother who loves will do so whether the sister intentionally or unintentionally angered the bully. Thank God, Jesus did this for everyone.

The problem with Atheists is IMO they are sitting there in moral judgment both of the younger sister and the bully while the sister is beaten. Their stance that scapegoating is reprehensible stems from pride and a distorted sense of ethics.

The brother who takes the beating is a loving brother.

"Love covers a multitude of sins."


First Christian I've ever seen to admit point blank that god is a bully.


That intervening brother was not very smart, obviously. Would have been much more effective if he had come around behind the bully while they were distracted and brake a leg with a swift kick to the back of the knee, or hit him on the back of the neck or head: bully is rendered totally ineffectual, little sister is still rescued and brother didn't need to get a single scratch.

All in all, a much more efficient system than simply stepping in and getting ones ass kicked by a bully, who will likely move onto the girl anyway ones brother is down for the count.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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11-02-2013, 03:17 PM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
(11-02-2013 02:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  That is also not the Bible view, that Jesus takes the "blame" for what I did. It says He paid the price for what I did. And people are not in prison to atone for their crimes. They are in prison as 1) a punishment fitting their crime (the jurists' and judge's goal) 2) to hopefully be rehabilitated for their crimes but until 1) and 2) are achieved to 3) separate them from the general populace among whom they'd commit their crimes. The wicked CANNOT be in Heaven or it is a dystopia.

What will help un-confuse you, perhaps, is this analogy. An older brother sees a bully (sin) about to strike their younger sister, and steps in front and gets punched very hard.

The brother who loves will do so whether the sister intentionally or unintentionally angered the bully. Thank God, Jesus did this for everyone.

The problem with Atheists is IMO they are sitting there in moral judgment both of the younger sister and the bully while the sister is beaten. Their stance that scapegoating is reprehensible stems from pride and a distorted sense of ethics.

The brother who takes the beating is a loving brother.

"Love covers a multitude of sins."

So lets see how that works in terms of god now, instead of brothers and sisters and bullies.

GOD was angry and gonna punish me, so then GOD(jebus) stepped infront of GOD cause he actually wasn't mad at me at all...
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11-02-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
(11-02-2013 02:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  That is also not the Bible view, that Jesus takes the "blame" for what I did. It says He paid the price for what I did. And people are not in prison to atone for their crimes. They are in prison as 1) a punishment fitting their crime (the jurists' and judge's goal) 2) to hopefully be rehabilitated for their crimes but until 1) and 2) are achieved to 3) separate them from the general populace among whom they'd commit their crimes. The wicked CANNOT be in Heaven or it is a dystopia.
We had a perfectly good thread going then PJ derails the fucking thing. Once again KC's Law is upheld. Damn you KC! Bowing

KC's Law:
If a known religious person is involved
in an online discussion with the
irreligious; no matter the topic, as an
online discussion grows longer, the
probability of the discussion being
directed/redirected towards the religious
person's set of beliefs approaches 1.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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11-02-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
(02-02-2013 11:54 PM)kpax Wrote:  You are lucky. Losing ones religion feels like someone died. Deconverting can be a tough, confusing process.
Well said. I am glad that you have found strength in yourself through all of this.
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12-02-2013, 02:41 AM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
(11-02-2013 02:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  That is also not the Bible view, that Jesus takes the "blame" for what I did. It says He paid the price for what I did. And people are not in prison to atone for their crimes. They are in prison as 1) a punishment fitting their crime (the jurists' and judge's goal) 2) to hopefully be rehabilitated for their crimes but until 1) and 2) are achieved to 3) separate them from the general populace among whom they'd commit their crimes. The wicked CANNOT be in Heaven or it is a dystopia.

What will help un-confuse you, perhaps, is this analogy. An older brother sees a bully (sin) about to strike their younger sister, and steps in front and gets punched very hard.

The brother who loves will do so whether the sister intentionally or unintentionally angered the bully. Thank God, Jesus did this for everyone.

The problem with Atheists is IMO they are sitting there in moral judgment both of the younger sister and the bully while the sister is beaten. Their stance that scapegoating is reprehensible stems from pride and a distorted sense of ethics.

The brother who takes the beating is a loving brother.

"Love covers a multitude of sins."
RE

"What will help un-confuse you, perhaps, is this analogy. An older
brother sees a bully (sin) about to strike their younger sister, and
steps in front and gets punched very hard.
The brother who loves will do so whether the sister intentionally or
unintentionally angered the bully. Thank God, Jesus did this for
everyone.
The problem with Atheists is IMO they are sitting there in moral
judgment both of the younger sister and the bully while the sister is
beaten. Their stance that scapegoating is reprehensible stems from pride
and a distorted sense of ethics.
The brother who takes the beating is a loving brother.
"Love covers a multitude of sins." "

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ON ABOUT?
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12-02-2013, 03:17 AM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
(11-02-2013 02:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  What will help un-confuse you, perhaps, is this analogy. An older brother sees a bully (sin) about to strike their younger sister, and steps in front and gets punched very hard.

The brother who loves will do so whether the sister intentionally or unintentionally angered the bully. Thank God, Jesus did this for everyone.

The problem with Atheists is IMO they are sitting there in moral judgment both of the younger sister and the bully while the sister is beaten. Their stance that scapegoating is reprehensible stems from pride and a distorted sense of ethics.

The brother who takes the beating is a loving brother.

"Love covers a multitude of sins."

If sin is like a 'bully' (indicating something that happens to us not by us) then there is not a reason for Jesus to pay any price for me because I didn't do anything.

If, however, sin is not like a 'bully' (indicating I did something wrong) and Jesus paid the price for what I did, then sin is a choice.

Therefore, if I can choose not to sin and still get to heaven without accepting Jesus at all.

Thanks! Bowing And Amen.

Then you will say something along the lines of "but you cannot live life without sin. Everybody's a sinner".

That's when I say something along the lines of "fuck you, religious sin is a stupid concept"

Then you would say; "Now, there's no reason for that language. Whether you know it or not, you sinned and are damned to hell!"

Then I would say "I hear they have free wifi."

You probably would say "You are getting off the subject, sinner."

Then I would say "You ruined my thread. Sad "


......Anyway, it really irks me how it's said in once instance that sin is something unavoidable that happens to us, therefore we need Jesus and then in the next breath they (Christians) say that sin is something we choose to do on a daily basis, therefore we need Jesus.

So, is Satan pulling the strings or are we conjuring sin up on our own? Because I can't see going to hell for something someone else did to me. That would be like a victim going to jail for the crimes her abuser committed.
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12-02-2013, 03:19 AM
RE: Since I De-Converted from Christianity to Atheism, _______________ .
(11-02-2013 10:03 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  A Christian's reponse to all this? There are a lot of Christians who struggle with guilt and a performance mentality. Then again, there are a lot of people who struggle with guilt and a performance mentality. If I had interacted with you before your deconversion, I would have suggested some specific steps--that anyone here is welcome to take, still--to be ushered into the presence of Jesus for healing and peace. "I feel better overall" or "I don't stress over X and Y anymore" is certainly commendable, but Jesus continues to pledge a peace unlike any the world is able to give to His followers.
Personally, I like 'what Jesus had to say', for the most part. If Christians actually behaved like Jesus, the gory history of the past two millenia would be considerably more peaceful-- though 'turning the other cheek' would empower tyrants that we otherwise might crush. But the things that Jesus had to say about loving one another and not being wrapped up in material possessions are ideas that are hardly singular.

Like the author of this thread, I find a far greater peace in lack of religion than Jesus, or Paul, or Moses could ever offer.

I do not have to worry about the condition of my soul when I die.
I will simply cease to exist. This is not frightening to me because prior to 1981, I was in the same condition and I suffered nothing.

I do not have to worry about the condition of my loved one's souls.
They are not burning. They suffer nothing.

I do not have to worry about pleasing an arrogant, fickle, tricky god.
What I do in bed with a another only matters to the two of us. If I were gay, this would be doubly comforting. If there were a creator who set the whole cosmos in motion and all it's laws and oddities and governed everything moment to moment who was concerned about what sexual position my partner and I took in bed, I'd be deeply disturbed.

Priorities.
I'm not working toward personal salvation. I'm working toward making this life the best that it can be. And not just for me-- for everyone who's life I touch.

Because I am an atheist, I appreciate this life. I don't mourn it. I'm not waiting for some sky-daddy to change things. I make this my heaven. My paradise. I find real joy in my accomplishments knowing that they came as a result of my hard work and were not some undeserved gift granted to me. I can own up to my failures, knowing that Satan has nothing to do with them, or anyone else's.

I fear no god nor demon nor monster. I have real power over my own life. I no longer agonize about death and eternal punishment.

With these three simple statements, what can Jesus offer me that is greater?

"The problem with faith is that it really is a conversation stopper. Faith is a declaration of immunity to the powers of conversation. It is a reason why you do not have to give reasons for what you believe." - Sam Harris
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