Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
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09-04-2015, 11:39 AM
Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
A gay woman who donated in support of the Indiana (USA) pizzeria whose owners declared they would not cater a gay wedding if asked (not that anyone would ask, but it's a hypothetical question) raised an interesting point.

The pizzeria owners made it clear that they would have no problem serving gay people who came into their shop. The issue, however, is that catering a private event carries a level of discretion for the business owner. A reasonable argument (I think) was made that because the caterer was asked about a private event, the caterer had the right to reject the business on the grounds that it did not agree with the theme of the event being celebrated.

This is leading me to seriously question my feelings on the issue being debated. Is a catering service a public accommodation in the same way a restaurant is? I know discrimination in public accommodations is against the law. But does the decision whether to cater a private event fall under the "jurisdiction" of a public accommodation law?

I'm a political moderate. I cringe at the thought of Christian caterers being compelled by law to serve private events that go against their beliefs. Do I think they're hypocrites? Yes. If they would cater a second marriage but not a gay wedding, then they're cherry-picking which of their principles to uphold. But isn't it still their right to do that (as much as it is my right to call that hypocrisy)?

Feel free to address and discuss this question, but my ears will perk up a little more if you have some legal background or knowledge base that addresses the issue.

Is a private event entitled to take advantage of the laws and protections of public accommodation?

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09-04-2015, 12:38 PM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2015 01:15 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
(09-04-2015 11:39 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Is a private event entitled to take advantage of the laws and protections of public accommodation?

BnW is the lawyer here but I think the gay woman's argument is legit. As a breeder and purveyor of gerbils I am not obliged to cater one of earmuffs private parties and personally insert a gerbil into each guest's ass but if he buys them from me online or in person I am obliged to sell them to him. I am also permitted to issue a receipt to him with graphic medical images illustrating what not to do anatomically with a gerbil.

The problem is that they are trying to codify what has previously been stipulated by all parties concerned. Much like when the juvenile Lord of the Flies fuckers around here decided that Stark's 3 commandments were insufficient and we should further refine and codify them, no good will come of it. Piggie's gonna die. Unanticipated outrage to the left of me, unintended consequences to the right. Here I am, stuck in the middle with Stark.

That said, I'd wager that the extent of catering that shitty little pizzeria has done is limited to showing up at the front door of an address to deliver 10 pizza boxes and then leave bitching about the tip.




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09-04-2015, 12:40 PM
RE: Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
...................//

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09-04-2015, 12:46 PM
RE: Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
Somehow, I followed that.

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09-04-2015, 01:10 PM
RE: Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
(09-04-2015 12:46 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Somehow, I followed that.

I will pray for you.

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09-04-2015, 04:25 PM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2015 04:29 PM by Patriot10mm.)
RE: Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
I posted about this in one of the other threads earlier in the week. One of the flower shop owners said they have sold flowers to the gay customers in question multiple times when they came to his shop but didn't want to deliver and set up the flowers at the gay wedding because that made them feel like they were participating. Some of these businesses are asked to deliver to the gay wedding or actually stay for the ceremony to set up food and stay and serve it. To me that's crossing a line.

Especially as atheists, should we be forced to go to a church, stay there all day setting up for catering and then serving? I wouldn't want to do it. I can't stand church. If a religious person wants to come to my business to purchase something, fine. But I don't want to be forced to go hang with them at their house of worship.

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09-04-2015, 06:06 PM
RE: Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
(09-04-2015 04:25 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  I posted about this in one of the other threads earlier in the week. One of the flower shop owners said they have sold flowers to the gay customers in question multiple times when they came to his shop but didn't want to deliver and set up the flowers at the gay wedding because that made them feel like they were participating. Some of these businesses are asked to deliver to the gay wedding or actually stay for the ceremony to set up food and stay and serve it. To me that's crossing a line.

Especially as atheists, should we be forced to go to a church, stay there all day setting up for catering and then serving? I wouldn't want to do it. I can't stand church. If a religious person wants to come to my business to purchase something, fine. But I don't want to be forced to go hang with them at their house of worship.

I'm sorry what?!

If I'm in business to SERVE THE PUBLIC then I serve the public. Or I get out of business. If the public demands that I go to a church. And I'm getting compensated for my time...fuck ya.

Caterer can negotiate based on what a customer is willing to pay. Some will contract everything from different types of place settings, table linens, napkins, etc. Other caterers only provide food in serving dishes. Some will still, provide everything including servers.

If they advertise as a "full service caterer" then, they have no right to refuse a service -- if they are available and the customer is willing to pay -- this can include a lot of extra fees for gasoline -- if the distance is great enough, it can even mean providing an overnight accommodation. If you don't negotiate properly you can lose a lot of money.

If its a restaurant that has a sign in the window saying they cater parties that is likely completely different. It might or might not include set up or even delivery. Grocery stores are the same way. You pick the shit up.

Same with a florist if they advertise they do weddings they better damn well mean it. There is an expectation the flowers will be delivered and set up by the florist (usually they have to go to more than one place too).

Otherwise you're just buying flowers. That again is different.

Some customers will try ordering flowers and sneak in set up/delivery. Usually after price is discussed, they'll casually ask, what time will deliver and what type of container...lmao!

Yeah, no, you're ordering flowers. If you want arrangements then here they are and here's the price for those. $$$$$$

Annnnd you go from there...


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09-04-2015, 09:23 PM
RE: Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
(09-04-2015 12:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-04-2015 11:39 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Is a private event entitled to take advantage of the laws and protections of public accommodation?

BnW is the lawyer here but I think the gay woman's argument is legit. As a breeder and purveyor of gerbils I am not obliged to cater one of earmuffs private parties and personally insert a gerbil into each guest's ass but if he buys them from me online or in person I am obliged to sell them to him. I am also permitted to issue a receipt to him with graphic medical images illustrating what not to do anatomically with a gerbil.

The problem is that they are trying to codify what has previously been stipulated by all parties concerned. Much like when the juvenile Lord of the Flies fuckers around here decided that Stark's 3 commandments were insufficient and we should further refine and codify them, no good will come of it. Piggie's gonna die. Unanticipated outrage to the left of me, unintended consequences to the right. Here I am, stuck in the middle with Stark.

That said, I'd wager that the extent of catering that shitty little pizzeria has done is limited to showing up at the front door of an address to deliver 10 pizza boxes and then leave bitching about the tip.




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09-04-2015, 09:37 PM
RE: Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
If caterers offer a service for sale, that service should be available to all who can pay. Honestly they wouldn't need these fucking laws if the silly bastards would pull their heads out their asses Rolleyes

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-04-2015, 08:31 PM
RE: Sincere question about "Religious Freedom" legislation
(09-04-2015 04:25 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  I posted about this in one of the other threads earlier in the week. One of the flower shop owners said they have sold flowers to the gay customers in question multiple times when they came to his shop but didn't want to deliver and set up the flowers at the gay wedding because that made them feel like they were participating.

I wonder what he would do if asked to deliver and set up the flowers at a gay funeral? Consider

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