Single biggest objection.
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20-05-2014, 06:58 PM
RE: Single biggest objection.
(20-05-2014 06:37 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(20-05-2014 06:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Before you attack him I for one did make a positive claim. However the bad part for Jeremy is I included evidence in my post. Sorry bud can't hand wash away history archaeology geology seismology plate tectonics. All of which are proof that the history put in the bible is not what actually happened.

How does history prove the Bible is fiction?

Banana_zorroBanana_zorroBanana_zorroBanana_zorroBanana_zorroBanana_zorroBanana_zorro how it doesn't ?
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20-05-2014, 07:00 PM
RE: Single biggest objection.
I was going to add something...then I thought
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20-05-2014, 07:01 PM (This post was last modified: 20-05-2014 07:32 PM by TheGulegon.)
RE: Single biggest objection.
(20-05-2014 06:49 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(20-05-2014 06:45 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  My biggest problem with the bible?

I need irrefutable evidence that the bible isn't a work of fiction before I can revere it!

Unfortunately, not even a single person who's ever made the claim that the bible is the word of god has provided me with that irrefutable proof I need to believe the things it says! Undecided No matter how many times they're asked to do so! Dodgy

yea.....you're just dying to believe the bible is the word of God....

you lie awake at night thinking about that one apologist who will find you and rescue you from your intellectual misgivings....

Dodgy

You do recognize that as a statement that isn't claiming the Bible as truth, or fiction, right?

I'm waiting for irrefutable proof that is is, or isn't!
Hey, I know; prove your claim that it isn't fiction, please! That would SO help me out Rolleyes

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20-05-2014, 07:02 PM
RE: Single biggest objection.
(20-05-2014 06:38 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(20-05-2014 06:34 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  "[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America."

Jefferson Davis

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example."

Richard Furman.

The slave owners used the bible to justify slaves.Drinking Beverage

Hate to break it to you but I am not God nor have I ever owned slaves.

I meant "you" as if I was talking to the bible not you. And as far as I know Yahweh doesn't mind slavery. Not one bible verse says slavery is wrong.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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20-05-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: Single biggest objection.
I have two big objections to the Bible... or at least, to relying on the Bible as if it were any sort of divine truth.

The first is that it is factually inaccurate. Others are fielding this one, so I'll leave it be.

Second, relying on it has been empirically demonstrated to be a shitty way of doing things.

Let me clarify this second objection. It's not about whether the Bible is true. That's the first objection. This one is about the consequences of a person attempting to derive truth from it. I have the same objection to living one's life according to revelation through prayer, or making every decision with a flip of a coin. It produces bad results.

To use the Bible as a guide for living, one must interpret that guidance. Whether this is a correct or incorrect interpretation (or whether there IS such a thing as a correct interpretation) of the Bible is irrelevant to my objection. Some interpretation is required to live by the Bible, for how can you live by a book that you cannot interpret? It is obvious from the great plurality of interpretations from the literally thousands of denominations out there that interpretation is not a straightforward process, not one that will reliably produce the same results each time. Blame this on contradictions in the Bible, or people who weren't equal to the task of interpretation, or malevolent interference from evil spirits, or deliberate deceit from people wishing to wrap a cloak of piety around their evil intent. Whoever or whatever is to blame, people have demonstrably used their genuinely-undertaken, best-effort interpretations to produce ill effects, and done so with the unquestioning faith of a child that Daddy will make everything all right. Again: my objection is not that the Bible says these things, but that people honestly trying to understand the Bible believe the Bible says them, that this belief results in bad outcomes, and that this type of false interpretation seems inescapable if people are to attempt to live according to the Bible.


Some examples:

Various parents in the modern era who deny their children proper medical care in favor of some form of faith-oriented healing, protection, or stoicism. The outcomes are often tragic, and doubly so for being preventable. Most of these parents have interpreted the Bible to endorse their course of action.

The execution, often by torturous methods, of countless people, who themselves were often Christian, on the grounds of them interpreting the Bible different than those doing the executing.

The great history of Christian persecution of the Jews. (The only other tradition that rivals the Christians for their centuries-long policy of anti-semitism are the Muslims... and even there, historically, Muslims have been more tolerant.)

The same, for oppression and mistreatment of women.

The active suppression of many aspects of science, in favor of demonstrably false interpretations of what the Bible says to be true.

The same, for medicine.

Some of the bloodiest, most horrific wars in history.

Propping up centuries of brutally-tyrannical monarchies and aristocracies.

Its basis as justification for some of the worst acts of genocide of the eras of exploration and colonization.

Its centuries-long role as a basis to justify slavery and, later, segregation.

Its ongoing basis for justifying other acts of bigotry and prejudice.

Justification for the destruction of the environment, to the point where the damage (and its harm to the world population as a whole) may now be permanent.

... this should suffice for us to start with.
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20-05-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: Single biggest objection.
(20-05-2014 07:00 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  I was going to add something...then I thought

You could write smileys if you want. Writing long posts to Jeremy is a waste of time. Anyways.
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20-05-2014, 07:08 PM
Single biggest objection.
(20-05-2014 06:49 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(20-05-2014 06:45 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  My biggest problem with the bible?

I need irrefutable evidence that the bible isn't a work of fiction before I can revere it!

Unfortunately, not even a single person who's ever made the claim that the bible is the word of god has provided me with that irrefutable proof I need to believe the things it says! Undecided No matter how many times they're asked to do so! Dodgy

yea.....you're just dying to believe the bible is the word of God....

you lie awake at night thinking about that one apologist who will find you and rescue you from your intellectual misgivings....

Dodgy

"Intellectual misgivings" doesn't mean much coming from someone who asks for evidence that disproves their unsupported claim, then refuses to examine the evidence.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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20-05-2014, 07:10 PM
RE: Single biggest objection.
I must have missed Jerry's CV. Is he qualified to answer scholarly questions about the bible?

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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20-05-2014, 07:12 PM (This post was last modified: 20-05-2014 07:20 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Single biggest objection.
(20-05-2014 07:02 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(20-05-2014 06:38 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Hate to break it to you but I am not God nor have I ever owned slaves.

I meant "you" as if I was talking to the bible not you. And as far as I know Yahweh doesn't mind slavery. Not one bible verse says slavery is wrong.

There is that tricky "neighbor" word, that is used by theists to negate any bad quote from the bible. funny how we lowly sinners can edit a forum post change of mind that updates to the whole world yet, the all powerful is unable to retract pre Jesus malevolence from his Mein Kampf

Luke 10: 25-37 is ignored by theists because it clearly states that only those helpful to you should be considered a neighbour.

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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20-05-2014, 07:18 PM
RE: Single biggest objection.
Hey Jeremy how many gods exists? Drinking Beverage
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