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26-11-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 12:01 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 11:35 AM)Impulse Wrote:  To those citing "big bang", while I agree, it's only a partial answer. The obvious next question is what caused the big bang?

It's like saying volcanoes are created by erupting magma. Well yeah, but why does the magma erupt? The heat, gases, pressure, specific make-up of the magma, etc. are all just as relevant in creating the volcanoes as the eruption itself.

Also, even if we answer "what caused the big bang", there will be the inevitable "well, what caused or created that..." next.

That's why I said "I don't know" what created the universe. I believe it's the only truly intellectually honest position.

No, the intellectually honest position is to say that space and time were created by the Big Bang and the evidence for it is immense. There doesn't have to be something before the Big Bang.
Evidence is not proof. Lack of proof makes it a theory, not knowledge. Without knowledge, the intellectually honest position is "I don't know".

So you're saying there was total and absolute nothingness. Nothing at all existed anywhere. Then suddenly "bang" out of the complete nothingness there was time, space, and the universe?

The "immense evidence" is missing something. Drinking Beverage

(But it's not god.)

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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26-11-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 11:41 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 11:35 AM)Impulse Wrote:  To those citing "big bang", while I agree, it's only a partial answer. The obvious next question is what caused the big bang?

It's like saying volcanoes are created by erupting magma. Well yeah, but why does the magma erupt? The heat, gases, pressure, specific make-up of the magma, etc. are all just as relevant in creating the volcanoes as the eruption itself.

Also, even if we answer "what caused the big bang", there will be the inevitable "well, what caused or created that..." next.

That's why I said "I don't know" what created the universe. I believe it's the only truly intellectually honest position.

That's 'cause you're dumb. Tongue

Many consider that time originates from the singularity, making "what came before" a meaningless query.

(Hadda go back and bold the part that rustles my jimmies. Tongue)
I stand my ground regarding the part you bolded. I understand your point and I agree with the part of your post that I bolded. But that only states what they consider. They still don't know. And so "I don't know" is the only intellectually honest thing they can say even while they also say "but I strongly believe" or "there is much evidence for" time originating from the singularity.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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26-11-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 12:18 PM)ALMASSAH Wrote:  God created the universe through the Big Bang AND EVOLUTION.

So... the Big Bang followed by lots of smaller bangs ? Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-11-2013, 01:50 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 01:39 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 11:41 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  That's 'cause you're dumb. Tongue

Many consider that time originates from the singularity, making "what came before" a meaningless query.

(Hadda go back and bold the part that rustles my jimmies. Tongue)
I stand my ground regarding the part you bolded. I understand your point and I agree with the part of your post that I bolded. But that only states what they consider. They still don't know. And so "I don't know" is the only intellectually honest thing they can say even while they also say "but I strongly believe" or "there is much evidence for" time originating from the singularity.

What, are you a fucking agnostic? Big Grin

It is trivial to say I don't know, 'cause we don't know shit. Big Grin

What I'm saying is that I accept the scientific consensus and am not further troubled by my lack of knowledge in this area. Smartass

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26-11-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 09:27 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Well, I was sitting and this thought/question occurred to me:

"If God is not real, then how was the universe created?"

If you are taking whatever random monkey-mind head-noise shit that pops up in your head while you are sitting and running with it, you're doing it wrong.

Quote:Now as I sit alone, (not by myself), I want the atheistic view of the origin of the Universe:

Atheism doesn't have a view on the origin of the universe. Atheism doesn't have a "view" about anything. Atheism is non-belief in the deities of the various fairytale and superstitions. Atheism is not an entity or a person. Atheism has no views.

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26-11-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 01:51 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Atheism doesn't have a view on the origin of the universe. Atheism doesn't have a "view" about anything. Atheism is non-belief in the deities of the various fairytale and superstitions. Atheism is not an entity or a person. Atheism has no views.

Atheism will not make hair grow on your bald spot...

Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-11-2013, 02:02 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 01:50 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  What, are you a fucking agnostic? Big Grin
A skeptic. Tongue

(26-11-2013 01:50 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It is trivial to say I don't know, 'cause we don't know shit. Big Grin
I give you that, but it's still the only intellectually honest position on the matter. Big Grin

(26-11-2013 01:50 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  What I'm saying is that I accept the scientific consensus and am not further troubled by my lack of knowledge in this area. Smartass
For now, that's reasonable, but I would suggest not getting too comfortable in it, that's all. Tomorrow may bring new information. People once swore up and down that the world was flat too.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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26-11-2013, 02:03 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 01:32 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Evidence is not proof. Lack of proof makes it a theory, not knowledge. Without knowledge, the intellectually honest position is "I don't know".

So you're saying there was total and absolute nothingness. Nothing at all existed anywhere. Then suddenly "bang" out of the complete nothingness there was time, space, and the universe?

The "immense evidence" is missing something. Drinking Beverage

(But it's not god.)

Your definitions of proof, theory, and knowledge are a tad bit worrisome. Evidence is not proof? Well technically, nothing in science can ever be 100% proven. Laws, nor theories, can be proven 100%.

Evidence increases our knowledge, and as our knowledge increases so does our ability to gain more concrete evidence. Our knowledge of the big bang is immense, and is supported by evidence. Hubble's Law, cosmic background radiation, proportion of light elements, distribution of galaxies, all contain evidence for the big bang.

Did you take the time to watch the Lawrence Krauss video that was posted earlier in this thread? Or do you just keep saying the same nonsense?
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26-11-2013, 02:03 PM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2013 02:49 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 10:27 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 10:06 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Well, it's kinda complicated and involved, and you don't seem very sciency to me, which is why you got the naïve philosophy shorthand. Big Grin

Aha! No evidence, eh? I guess atheism is disproved (wootwoot). Jk, I liked the video and it answered my question, though it's long and I'm still watching it. Big Grin

Actually you have no evidence for the gods.
Demanding answers to questions for which Homo sapiens is still looking for answers is like the 2 year old asking mommy "but why, but why, but why, but why".
The universe doesn't OWE you an answer TODAY. Universes don't REQUIRE creators.
Even if they did, the universe maker could be robot universe makers who were hatched with the power to create universes, which were made by other artificial intelligences as part of some gigantic robotic game etc.
Your brain thinks "hmm, I see something. I NEED to see the cause".
In fact that sort of logic is valid and operant in only a small bandwidth of reality, ((proven by Relativity, (Einstein) Uncertainty, (Heisenberg), tensors-matricies (Dirac)).
What appears to your brain to be intuitively logical has been proven to NOT be the way the universe works.
Last, and not least, ''creation" is a time dependent *activity*. Actions have intentions, beginnings and ends ... all of which are temporally dependent. positing activities which are temporally dependent *BEFORE* (meaningless) space-time began, and which, per se, REQUIRE time, are *meaningless* ^ 2.

The answer is : "We don't know yet".
Get over it.
Just because you see presents around the tree, and are missing an explanation, does not mean you get to cook up Santy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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26-11-2013, 02:03 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 01:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 01:51 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Atheism doesn't have a view on the origin of the universe. Atheism doesn't have a "view" about anything. Atheism is non-belief in the deities of the various fairytale and superstitions. Atheism is not an entity or a person. Atheism has no views.

Atheism will not make hair grow on your bald spot...

Tongue

Atheism will not put the stiff in your wick...

Tongue

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