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26-11-2013, 02:06 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 10:45 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 10:27 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Aha! No evidence, eh? I guess atheism is disproved (wootwoot). Jk, I liked the video and it answered my question, though it's long and I'm still watching it. Big Grin

It is a good and accessible presentation. Really expected this crowd to pop that video in with alacrity, but they're slacking today. Big Grin

But....but....but....he asked how ATHEISM views the origin of the universe (an absurdity), rather than what the current views are among SCIENTISTS...Shocking

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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26-11-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 02:02 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 01:50 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  What I'm saying is that I accept the scientific consensus and am not further troubled by my lack of knowledge in this area. Smartass

For now, that's reasonable, but I would suggest not getting too comfortable in it, that's all. Tomorrow may bring new information. People once swore up and down that the world was flat too.

And tomorrow Gwyneth may come over and gouge my eyes out with a spoon. Are you implying that I'm being "intellectually dishonest" by saying I love my Gwynnies? Evil_monster

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26-11-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 12:18 PM)ALMASSAH Wrote:  God created the universe through the Big Bang AND EVOLUTION.

And what part do you claim that "EVOLUTION" played in the CREATION of the universe, hmmmmmmm.....?Consider

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26-11-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 02:06 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 10:45 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It is a good and accessible presentation. Really expected this crowd to pop that video in with alacrity, but they're slacking today. Big Grin

But....but....but....he asked how ATHEISM views the origin of the universe (an absurdity), rather than what the current views are among SCIENTISTS...Shocking

Uh-oh, the eye of Taq is upon me. I'm outta here!

Bechased

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26-11-2013, 02:13 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 01:32 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Evidence is not proof. Lack of proof makes it a theory, not knowledge.

You have no idea what the definition of a THEORY is in science, do you.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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26-11-2013, 02:16 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 02:02 PM)Impulse Wrote:  For now, that's reasonable, but I would suggest not getting too comfortable in it, that's all. Tomorrow may bring new information. People once swore up and down that the world was flat too.

I have never encountered literature that states 'people swore up and down that the earth was flat.'

Aristotle started pushing the idea that the earth was round over 2,000 years ago. Most educated people have accepted the "spherical-earth theory" for a very long time.

Tomorrow may bring new information, and scientists absolutely love that. That new information won't overturn our ideas of the origin of the universe, but instead may help us refine and understand it even more. We aren't suddenly going to find out that the cosmic background radiation was a farce.

Thousands of years from now people aren't going to use the idiotic argument of 'yea well people use to swear up and down that there was mathematical and observable evidence for the big bang.'
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26-11-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 02:03 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 01:32 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Evidence is not proof. Lack of proof makes it a theory, not knowledge. Without knowledge, the intellectually honest position is "I don't know".

So you're saying there was total and absolute nothingness. Nothing at all existed anywhere. Then suddenly "bang" out of the complete nothingness there was time, space, and the universe?

The "immense evidence" is missing something. Drinking Beverage

(But it's not god.)

Your definitions of proof, theory, and knowledge are a tad bit worrisome. Evidence is not proof? Well technically, nothing in science can ever be 100% proven. Laws, nor theories, can be proven 100%.

Evidence increases our knowledge, and as our knowledge increases so does our ability to gain more concrete evidence. Our knowledge of the big bang is immense, and is supported by evidence. Hubble's Law, cosmic background radiation, proportion of light elements, distribution of galaxies, all contain evidence for the big bang.

Did you take the time to watch the Lawrence Krauss video that was posted earlier in this thread? Or do you just keep saying the same nonsense?
I see. When all else fails, call the other argument "nonsense". Dodgy

So then you know exactly how the universe was created? Consider

I didn't think so... Rolleyes

... which means "I don't know" is the only intellectually honest position. There is nothing wrong with saying "there is strong evidence for", but that's different than saying space and time did originate from the big bang.

I'm not going to keep spending time on this. As HoC pointed out, it's trivial and I agree. But it bothers me when people insert an explanation into an "I don't know" situation whether that explanation is god, the big bang, or anything else and that's why I started this tangent. The big bang is far better than god as an explanation because at least that has a lot of supporting evidence. But extending that to say the big bang not only created the universe, but actually started everything is a huge leap (speaking of nonsense).

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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26-11-2013, 02:22 PM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2013 02:29 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 02:10 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 02:06 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  But....but....but....he asked how ATHEISM views the origin of the universe (an absurdity), rather than what the current views are among SCIENTISTS...Shocking

Uh-oh, the eye of Taq is upon me. I'm outta here!

Bechased

LOOSE THE MOCKINGBIRDS!!!!

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26-11-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 02:08 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 02:02 PM)Impulse Wrote:  For now, that's reasonable, but I would suggest not getting too comfortable in it, that's all. Tomorrow may bring new information. People once swore up and down that the world was flat too.

And tomorrow Gwyneth may come over and gouge my eyes out with a spoon. Are you implying that I'm being "intellectually dishonest" by saying I love my Gwynnies? Evil_monster
Now you're confusing "intellectually dishonest" with "love is blind". Tongue

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26-11-2013, 02:37 PM
RE: Sitting
(26-11-2013 09:27 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Well, I was sitting and this thought/question occurred to me:

"If God is not real, then how was the universe created?"

Now as I sit alone, (not by myself), I want the atheistic view of the origin of the Universe: ignorance to the creation, knowing the creation, or are views varied?

SO I decided to come to this forum and post.

How about "We don't know, but there are several theories supported by varying amounts of evidence."

There is no evidence that any gods were involved. Besides, where would they have come from?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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