Situation before the Big Bang
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06-05-2013, 06:15 AM
Situation before the Big Bang
Are there any scientific theories regarding the time before the Big Bang?
Also, what caused the Big Bang to occur?

Any reply welcomed!
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06-05-2013, 06:20 AM
RE: Situation before the Big Bang
I'm not at all sure, but I don't think time existed before the Big Bang. I think time came about with the big bang...

It is unknown what caused the big bang. To my knowledge, all that we really know is that everything in the universe came from a single point.

A single action is worth more than the words it takes to describe it.
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06-05-2013, 06:25 AM
RE: Situation before the Big Bang
Physics runs on mathematics. The widely accepted paradigms run on mathematics that don't run in the vicinity of the singularity. So!

Here's a good place to start reading. C-ya in a month. Wink

What caused the big bang to occur? Gwyneth Paltrow. See, every morning I get up singing "I love my Gwynnies!" And then I remember stuff like me; and you, asking these silly questions. So I hafta remember more stuff... Consider

But them two things are pretty much "not questions" in the sense they're asked from where the pavement ends. Like, breathe vacuum, or empathise greenly... furiously sleeping.

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06-05-2013, 06:29 AM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2013 06:32 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Situation before the Big Bang
The second I saw your name as the response, I just knew it had something to do with that old bag, you'd include her in the response somehow.

Goddamnit Cantor.

A single action is worth more than the words it takes to describe it.
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06-05-2013, 06:32 AM
RE: Situation before the Big Bang
(06-05-2013 06:29 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  that old bag

Hey! I resemble that remark. Tongue

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06-05-2013, 06:46 AM
RE: Situation before the Big Bang
William Lame Craig is always going on about his god-thing being spaceless and timeless.

I reckon he got it wrong (other than for the obvious reasons)

If we image space and time being merely scales. It would make more sense to claim that the universe was, at the beginning, spaceless and time-full.

Meaning that space was at x = 0, y = 0 and z = 0, but time was infinite i.e. all possible time-scales / rates were possible until the big bang happened... at which point the time-rate (the speed or scale of time) was set.

Bloody obvious, really.

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06-05-2013, 06:49 AM
RE: Situation before the Big Bang
Thanks for the replies!Smile
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06-05-2013, 06:58 AM
RE: Situation before the Big Bang
(06-05-2013 06:46 AM)DLJ Wrote:  William Lame Craig is always going on about his god-thing being spaceless and timeless.

Kinda like the inside of his skull... Consider

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06-05-2013, 08:46 PM
RE: Situation before the Big Bang
(06-05-2013 06:46 AM)DLJ Wrote:  William Lame Craig is always going on about his god-thing being spaceless and timeless.

I reckon he got it wrong (other than for the obvious reasons)

If we image space and time being merely scales. It would make more sense to claim that the universe was, at the beginning, spaceless and time-full.

Meaning that space was at x = 0, y = 0 and z = 0, but time was infinite i.e. all possible time-scales / rates were possible until the big bang happened... at which point the time-rate (the speed or scale of time) was set.

Bloody obvious, really.

Yeah, and as soon as Craig is done with that sentence, he proceeds to use every verb and action word in the book that make no sense in a timeless context. He's as consistent as a two year old. He Special Pleads everything.
If there was a singularity, the dimensions of spacetime came with it. That's all we know. To talk about "before" spacetime is meaningless. (It's also meaningless to talk about "intelligence" and a "creator" acting *before* she created spacetime).
It's all about Linguistics.

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The noblest of the dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.
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26-05-2013, 03:06 PM
RE: Situation before the Big Bang
To add to what the other posters have said, to be outside of time is to be without motion/action. Time is simply motion through space. Therefore a deity that is timeless is incapable of an action such as creation. Such an event would create a frame of reference by which the deity could be measured. That leaves only two possible options should a deity be found to exist: A timeless god that cannot take action -or- a god bound by natural laws such as time that can take action but is not metaphysical.

To paraphrase the bible "you will know a tree by its fruit". If a creator does exist, you can tell what kind of creator it is by its creation. The who argue in favor of creation often use the argument that if you see a painting, you know it was made by a painter. However, if the painting is of poor quality, you do not assume the painter is a perfect painter. Humans are rife with sickness and disease, poorly engineered and susceptible to delusion. If they were in fact created, it would be a scathing indictment of the design skills of the creator. Craig and other apologists overlook the obvious: If a painting is of poor quality, you do not blame the painting. You blame the painter.

But I digress, back to the original topic. What caused the big bang to occur? No one knows for certain. If you have not already, I would recommend Lawrence Krauss's book "A Universe From Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing". I question whether his ideas regarding virtual particles would hold up in an infinitely hot and dense singularity. On a completely unrelated note, I often wonder if Event Horizon to Singularity to CMBR represents a form of symmetry (i.e. if the material that falls into a black hole ending in a singularity sparks the creation of a new verse in a different dimension that springs forth from a singularity). This line of thinking has caused me to consider loop quantum gravity cosmology, though I have not seen any proposed correlations between event horizons and the CMBR in "big bounce" models. I also would not be surprised to learn that matter undergoes phase changes as the universe cools, offering a possible explanation into why a unified theory remains elusive.

I hope to explore these thoughts and ideas at university this fall. I am awaiting the approval/rejection of my application to the physics program of a college a mere hour away from our home, the culmination of my emancipation from the religious indoctrination of my youth. If ever you lose hope in humanity or wonder if your words fall on deaf ears, take heart! This former creationist heard the arguments provided by skeptics rational thinkers and is now an atheist, defender of Darwinian evolution and prospective physics student because someone cared enough to make videos, participate in debates and break social convention by arguing publicly against faith. Thanks to each and every one of you who took up that banner!

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