Six day war miracles
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25-02-2015, 04:46 PM
RE: Six day war miracles
(11-08-2013 11:55 PM)Kushne Wrote:   I know this is a long post but wondered if anyone on this site has heard about this purported miracles and how an atheist can logically explain away the allegations. If you want, I can post some specific stories for debunking-- but my post is already really long.

Laugh out load If you think that's long you're going to have a hard time around here.

Welcome, by the way. Tongue

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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25-02-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: Six day war miracles
(25-02-2015 04:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)Caleb Wrote:  It sounds like you have not yet totally closed off your mind and honestly want to know whether God exists or not (although you sound as if you prefer He didn't). So as a professional adult educator and former scientist maybe I can give you a few hints to help you on your journey to Truth.

First of all, be aware that there will always be people on the Internet ready to debunk something you want debunked. Just because they gave you an answer that sounded good to you, it doesn't mean they are leading you down the path to Truth. Make them cite their sources and make sure those citations are from credible sources, not Wikipedia. Even then, do your research. Find out what those who oppose this debunking might say in defense of that piece of information. In the end, hopefully you will be well informed. But you may eventually have to go with your gut. Look at the credibility and heart of the person giving you the information (pro or con). Sounds like you were pretty impressed by the man who gave the testimony.

Did you know the fulfillment of Bible prophecy provides enough evidence to debunk atheism? The probability or odds of Jesus fulfilling just 300 very precise and detailed prophecies is one and a number that is higher than the number of atoms in the entire universe (He fulfilled many more than 300). Yet there are hundreds more that have been fulfilled about other historical events as well, including the miraculous reappearance of the nation of Israel after nearly 2,000 years, as prophesied. This will be the generation to see Christ's return.

Keep in mind, that the Apostles were willing to die to prove to the world that they saw what they saw. How is this different from a Muslim terrorist dying for his faith? There is a really big difference. Nobody would be willing to die for a lie. While Muslims are simply dying for the promise of heaven (i.e., their faith), the Apostles were dying for what they knew. They were actual witnesses to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If they were simply trying to become popular or get money, they would never have been willing to die or endure beatings and other forms of persecution for a lie they had made up for selfish reasons. Once things got difficult, they could have run away. However, all but one of them would work tirelessly for years before being put to death.

I have experienced many miracles. I even have proof of some of these. But I have also discovered that most people will believe however they want to believe despite the proof you provide for them. So in the end, even for the atheist, it has to come down to a matter of faith. But you can be certain God exists. If you will lay down any psychological need you may have had to put on this identity of an atheist. Humility is the key to engage in an honest search for God or Truth. But unlike atheism, God will eventually provide you with the certainty or proof you desire. It just takes perseverance. Just make sure you aren't being blinded by prejudice arising from some psychological need to use atheism as a cover up. If you answer any of the following questions yes, then you are.

What is your real reason for being an atheist? Are you really searching for truth or:
  • Did you get humiliated in college by someone who had more answers than you? If so, why didn't you seek the answers you were unprepared to answer?
  • Were you angry with your parents' opinion towards your behavior or resent their control over you?
  • Was becoming an atheist a way to separate yourself from any identification with your embarrassing parents? If so, instead of showing them and everyone else how much of an adult you were, you may have actually demonstrated your immaturity (if any of that was your original motivation).
  • Did you become an atheist to feel more acceptable by others or as the result of peer pressure?
  • Were you made to feel vulnerable and weak because you were a Christian and just wanted to identify with something that seemed more certain and stronger? Bad motivation
  • Are you just angry at God? That is what forgiveness and trust are for.
  • Did a Christian disappoint or abuse you. I sympathize, but that is what healing and forgiveness are for. Would you give up on your favorite sports team simply because a fan hurt your feelings? No.
  • Does atheism provide you with more certainty than Christianity? Faith is not your key to some heavenly bank account to use for your own selfish gain. Faith is meant to cause you the conflict you need to be transformed into His Image. When that conflict comes, you will either be motivated to draw closer to Jesus to discover the answers you seek or you will choose to give up. If you don't give up, you will learn who He is. That is how you become more like Him. Read up a bit on Jack Mezirow's ten phases of adult transformation regarding this process (purely secular information on adult education). This will show yet another way that science is catching up with the Bible, proving how faith or the lack thereof can bring about the needed "disorienting dilemma" to cause human transformation (for better or worse).


If you answered yes to one or more of these questions, then your reason for choosing atheism (or not choosing God) is not a credible one, but rather a psychological escape. Therefore, be aware that you can never look at any data that is in favor of God without experiencing extreme prejudice. Consequently, you may not be the critical thinker nor the honest seeker of truth you really believe you are; at least not in this subject area, anyway. You can also test whether you are able to be honest about your pursuit of the Truth by determining whether or not reading this or other comments made by Christians makes you angry or if it makes you suddenly rise up in pride and arrogance (I call that the Meter O' Truth).

If you failed your first test of faith, don't worry. As long as you have breath it isn't too late to start an honest search for Truth. Just take a look at your heart to determine whether you can receive the Truth or not. Then turn around and think again (i.e., repent). Then lay down any need you might have to be right (e.g., put on some honesty and humility). Good luck. Contact me if I can be of any help.

I hope this was thought provoking.

I rather doubt you were actually a scientist. You have demonstrated no skepticism whatsoever in your post.

Oh Chas, you gotta admit it sounds better when they say that. Tongue


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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25-02-2015, 05:34 PM
RE: Six day war miracles
(25-02-2015 04:16 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Always be weary when someone spells "truth" with a capital letter.
It's a special kind of truth that they are offering.

"Truth" comes with a specific faith and specific belief.

"truth" comes with falsifiable criteria, evidence, objective validation and failed attempts to meet the falsifiable criteria.

Yes, "Truth" is not a true "truth". Smile

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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25-02-2015, 06:23 PM
RE: Six day war miracles
(12-08-2013 12:18 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  People claim to have seen Elvis, too. So what? People are stupid.

I'll come clean now.....

Back in 1989 there was a "sighting" of Elvis that made the national news......

The reporter in question had a source that had "seen Elvis in a laundromat in the north end of Kalamazoo Michigan".....

I know the guy, she saw.......

He worked for UPS - and delivered at the shop I worked at --- and he indeed did his laundry at the laundromat in question --- and he did a night gig -- as an Elvis impersonator..... He had the look - and was quite good at doing Elvis when Elvis was in his early 30's........ (still trim)...

It's amazing that it made national news -- but the reality of the situation never did.... then again - it's really not surprising...... The reality wasn't as sensational as the possibility......

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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25-02-2015, 08:18 PM
RE: Six day war miracles
(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)Caleb Wrote:  ... But you may eventually have to go with your gut ...

My gut says anyone [burp] that says you have to go with your gut is no scientist.
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26-02-2015, 06:56 AM
RE: Six day war miracles
(11-08-2013 11:55 PM)Kushne Wrote:  I made the mistake of going to the comments where some Christian posted about the miracles god did for Israel in the Six-day war. Unfortunately, I looked up info on this and got freaked out! There were storied about Arabs stating they saw angels, and even Abraham. There was a video series that I suffered through called Against All Odds- Israel Survives. I know this is a long post but wondered if anyone on this site has heard about this purported miracles and how an atheist can logically explain away the allegations. If you want, I can post some specific stories for debunking-- but my post is already really long. Any help you can provide is appreciated. I want to be a happy atheist without worrying about Israel and their damn supposed miracles!!!

Two things:

1) The only "miracles" of the six day war was that Israel planted false information with spies ahead of time and struck first. That's hugely advantageous. They wiped out Egypt's entire air force while it was still on the ground. I mean, yes, being able to fight four countries simultaneously is impressive, but they did a lot to stack the odds in their favor. There's a reason Israel is known for being extremely pragmatic, ruthless, and immoral. You can argue their actions are out of necessity, but that won't stop them from blowing up your air strip and asking questions later.

2) If God actually did send angels to fight, where the fuck were they during the entire goddamn holocaust!? Seriously. There's no reason to believe that God sent angels to fight when a mundane solution explains this perfectly and he obviously didn't send angels during other super important times.
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26-02-2015, 07:30 AM (This post was last modified: 26-02-2015 09:10 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: Six day war miracles
(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)Caleb Wrote:  So as a professional adult educator and former scientist maybe I can give you a few hints to help you on your journey to Truth.

After reading the rest of your post I can see why you are a ‘former’ scientist. I’m actually very surprised you could have ever been a scientist.

(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)Caleb Wrote:  First of all, be aware that there will always be people on the Internet ready to debunk something you want debunked.

How ironic.

(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)‘Caleb Wrote:  Make them cite their sources and make sure those citations are from credible sources, not the Bible.

fixt.

(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)‘Caleb Wrote:  I have experienced many miracles. I even have proof of some of these.

Do tell, we need new entertainment.

(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)‘Caleb’ pid=‘741522’ Wrote:But I have also discovered that most people will believe however they want to believe despite the proof you provide for them.

More Irony. (Notice irony is now capitalized and bolded. This only happens when it begins to burn.)

(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)‘Caleb Wrote:  If you will lay down any psychological need you may have had to put on this identity of a believer.

fixt, you’re welcome.

(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)‘Caleb Wrote:  If you answered yes to one or more of these questions, then your reason for choosing woo woo is not a credible one, but rather a psychological escape.

fixt, lots of typos in your ramble.

(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)‘Caleb Wrote:  Consequently, you may not be the critical thinker nor the honest seeker of truth you really believe you are; at least not in this subject area, anyway.

We are now having to capitalize all the letters in IRONY.

(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)‘Caleb Wrote:  Then lay down any need you might have to be right (e.g., put on some honesty and humility).

We now not only have to capitalize IRONY but now we are forced to make the font bigger and use color
IRONY

(25-02-2015 03:22 PM)‘Caleb Wrote:  I hope this was thought provoking.

Oh it was! It provoked the thought “how can adults believe in myths and fairy tales and still be able to tie their shoelaces”. Thumbsup

EDIT: I kept thinking about your “thought-provoking post” and it dawned on me that I have NEVER heard a real scientist ever refer to themselves as a “former” scientist. A scientist is not somethinng you stop being. So I’m going to go out on a limb here (a very short limb) and say you’re full of shit.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-03-2015, 01:35 PM
RE: Six day war miracles
God has done many miracles with the Jewish people from restoring their homeland shortly after the Holocaust to victories in five wars and many, many more.

The more you know.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-03-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: Six day war miracles
Miracles???

It's a miracle how easy some people accept coincidences as "miracles"....

Of course, you have to when you're justifying a questionable position........

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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04-03-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: Six day war miracles
(04-03-2015 01:35 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  God has done many miracles with the Jewish people from restoring their homeland shortly after the Holocaust to victories in five wars and many, many more.

The more you know.

Miracles? God? Are you sure that wasn't the UN?
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