Skeptical of Psychology?
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14-07-2014, 11:54 AM
RE: Skeptical of Psychology?
(14-07-2014 11:50 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(14-07-2014 11:46 AM)cjlr Wrote:  "More" would only apply had you ever given any in the first place.


Yes, let's. I admit to being a bit rude because I find your obstinacy tedious.

This is, once again, not an ad hominem. If you're reduced to whining about tone, I guess it's because you've decided not to address the several points I repeatedly raised.

Whining tone? You just don't know when to quit, do you?
Here's another ad hominem..your post number 12
Quote:Srsly bro.

Feel free to be skeptical of vaccines and fluoridation while you're at it.

Good luck with that.

Neither of those is an Ad Hominem Fallacy.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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14-07-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: Skeptical of Psychology?
(14-07-2014 11:46 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(14-07-2014 11:36 AM)Chas Wrote:  You seem to be confusing the broad field of science called 'psychology' with the particular application known as 'therapy'. Consider

is therapy part of the field of psychology? Yes, I believe it is. But, I think if you read the transcript of the Science Friday program, and the Discover article, you'll find they don't mention therapy.

Just read your own words - I have bolded the applicable parts.

(14-07-2014 06:11 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Well, let me see if I can try again in a way that will make sense to you all. See, there are some of us people out there in the world who call ourselves skeptics. When people make positive claims like "Psychology is to be trusted" we start looking into the facts. When we find evidence of psychology doing harm we point out those problems.

I never said psychology should be stopped... I've even admitted that there are people who really need it. But, I think we need to continue to point out and be honest about the flaws in the hope that in doing so the science will become better and more objective in the future, if that's possible. I'm glad we live in a world where psychology can be talked about on shows like NPR's Science Friday, and where articles can be written in Discover magazine.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-07-2014, 12:07 PM
RE: Skeptical of Psychology?
(14-07-2014 11:54 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(14-07-2014 11:50 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Whining tone? You just don't know when to quit, do you?
Here's another ad hominem..your post number 12

Neither of those is an Ad Hominem Fallacy.

Yeah, it involves a little more than just "being rude and disagreeing with me".

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14-07-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: Skeptical of Psychology?
(14-07-2014 12:07 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-07-2014 11:54 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Neither of those is an Ad Hominem Fallacy.

Yeah, it involves a little more than just "being rude and disagreeing with me".

Well what would you know you're a Canadian.

That is an Ad Hominem Fallacy.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-07-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: Skeptical of Psychology?
(04-07-2014 05:24 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  I haven't been in any counseling for over 5 years.

I first started when I was in my 20's, I was having some issues, and decided it was time to seek help. For the most part, I liked the counselor, but I didn't feel I was helped much. I've never seen much benefit of any of the counseling sessions I've been involved with, besides the dubious benefit of being listened to.
You are speaking specifically about therapeutic psychology. Therapeutic psychology has come a long way and still has a long way to go. But, without question, it has reached a level that it most definitely can be helpful to people in need.

I'm currently in the IT field. But originally I started out going all the way to a masters degree in psychology. While doing my master's degree, I was also working a job as a counselor. By the end of my master's degree, I knew it was the wrong field for me. Why? Because of the people I was "helping".

What came as a complete surprise to me is how obvious it was that many people simply don't want to be helped. Oh sure, they say they want help. They may even believe they want help. But, when it came right down to it, many just refused to do anything that I recommended to them that would help themselves. It's like they expected me to come up with some magical cure that would rid them of their issues. But it doesn't work that way. Without the direct involvement of the person receiving counseling, the counselor can do nothing.

So I had people coming to me complaining about issues who obviously just wanted to complain to someone. I would give them some reading, some exercises, or other assignments to help them learn about their issues and develop coping or other strategies/mechanisms in between sessions, but they would return the next time having done none of it and repeating the same complaints - session after session. There were a few who did do the assignments and did improve. Those people were the only reason I lasted on that job as long as I did. But ultimately they other ones became so frustrating that I realized I could not spend the rest of my life in that career. I tend to be patient, but apparently not that patient.

So, to you, I say that you - first and foremost - must take responsibility for helping yourself. The counselor is only a guide to provide some direction for how you can help yourself. It's up to you to actually do the work over and above attending the sessions and just talking. I realize you said you aren't in counseling anymore, but you mentioned it didn't really help in the past.

There are at least three reasons why counseling may fail. 1) The person receiving counseling isn't doing their part. 2) The counselor is not competent. 3) The counselor may be competent, but subscribes too rigidly to a particular perspective in psychology (behavioral, psychoanalytic, cognitive, humanist, etc.) The first of those is up to person receiving counseling to correct. For the last two, changing counselors should bring better success. However, if the person changes counselors a few times and is still unhappy with the results, they probably need to be more honest with them self about #1.

One final note: Some psychological issues require more than just counseling. For those, there is psychiatry. Those issues are usually based at least partially in biology as well.

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15-07-2014, 11:10 AM
RE: Skeptical of Psychology?
(15-07-2014 10:32 AM)Impulse Wrote:  One final note: Some psychological issues require more than just counseling. For those, there is psychiatry. Those issues are usually based at least partially in biology as well.

Yup. My shrink doesn't do counseling. I spend 10 minutes describing my current condition and he writes scripts. And these are not your father's pharmaceuticals. The SSRIs kicked my ass. Back to Wellbutrin for me. Doc asked me if I wanted therapy. I said you mean like "talk therapy"? "Yes." "I doubt that will help. I think I'm a little beyond that at this point."

#sigh
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07-10-2014, 11:25 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2014 11:33 AM by anonymous66.)
RE: Skeptical of Psychology?
I thought I'd pop back in and see how things are going...
Since starting this thread, I started seeing the counselor I left 5 years ago... I met with him for a month or so, until he started promoting Scientology.... It was very subtle, but he let me know he is involved with the local Narconon...and that he sees nothing wrong with their methods.

So, I left...

Anyway... I'm obviously very suspicious of the traditional counselor. I will say that I don't hold anything against anyone who feels the need to see one. I remember reading some self-help book that explained that the relationship of a counselor and patient could even be seen as that of a paid friend.

I've also been listening to the Rationally Speaking podcast, and they have also, from time to time, criticized popular psychology.

I'm currently getting into philosophy... I find it to be something worth studying...

1 Areas of inquiry
1.1 Epistemology
1.2 Logic
1.3 Metaphysics
1.4 Ethics and political philosophy
1.5 Aesthetics
1.6 Specialized branches

Epistemology and Logic are very helpful tools.

Did you know that there are philosophical counselors? Check out the book Plato not Prozac.
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