Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
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10-02-2017, 02:31 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(10-02-2017 11:51 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 11:40 AM)SYZ Wrote:  LOL... are you for real?

Are you actually claiming that the theory of gravity is merely a "hypothesis", and its falsification is merely "approaching" infinity.

Weeping

I didn't mention gravity specifically, but yes. What justification is there for the Universal Law of Gravitation? There's no a priori justification so it encounters the Problem of Induction. How do Pragmatists solve this?

Induction is no problem for a pragmatic person. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-02-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(10-02-2017 01:06 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 11:40 AM)SYZ Wrote:  LOL... are you for real?

Are you actually claiming that the theory of gravity is merely a "hypothesis", and its falsification is merely "approaching" infinity.

Weeping

Yes.

Again, it's semantic games. It's simply taking the word "proof" and moving the attached goalposts so far out that scoring is simply not possible.

I could go further in depth and explain the other issues with it, but I really don't care. The position is worthless.

How certain are you that it's not possible? You could be wrong couldn't you? You see have no basis on which you can make claims about reality if your foundation is assumptions.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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10-02-2017, 03:01 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(10-02-2017 02:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 11:40 AM)Naielis Wrote:  But that's exactly my point. This is the philosophy section of the forum. We aren't here to discuss everyday pragmatism or skepticism. We're talking about epistemological systems. Skepticism as a system is incompatible with Pragmatism.

More of your black and white positioning. We are here to discuss whatever the fuck we want to discuss.

People are doing practical philosophy here. I can be pragmatic without being Pragmatic® and skeptical without being a Skeptic®.

Actually no were here to discuss real philosophy. That's why I made the thread.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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10-02-2017, 03:17 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(10-02-2017 03:01 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 02:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  More of your black and white positioning. We are here to discuss whatever the fuck we want to discuss.

People are doing practical philosophy here. I can be pragmatic without being Pragmatic® and skeptical without being a Skeptic®.

Actually no were here to discuss real philosophy. That's why I made the thread.

Practical, everyday philosophy is very real philosophy.

Pro tip: You do not dictate what people post.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-02-2017, 03:20 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
Okay. N. failed to answer my "Who have you studied?" question.

I have come to the conclusion. None.

Now you guys know what I go through teaching teenagers to drum who only love heavy metal. Big Grin

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10-02-2017, 03:33 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
FFS... all this reading and all I have really seen from this cat is the "You can't really know anything because you might just be a head floating in a vat" argument. Everything else has been smoke and mirrors around this one basic point.

And he still doesn't get that none of his points matter. Not one so far. He simply won't listen to people who explain that it doesn't matter what the philosophical "maybes" are; we operate on the assumption that what we experience and can reproduce among multiple observers is reality because-- what else is there?

Either this is reality, and our assumptions are well-grounded, or we're all in The Matrix. Either way, it's insane to sit here and watch you try to sound high-and-mighty by pronouncing you've Deep Thought™ yourself into the realization that there's no such thing as certainty... but haven't yet matured enough to realize that you can't therefore go and fantasize your way into a feeling of certainty by manipulating the definition of words and/or ignoring the full meanings of others.

I don't care if you're 17 or 70. Grow up.

This is why philosophers rarely have any friends.

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10-02-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(10-02-2017 02:58 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 01:06 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Again, it's semantic games. It's simply taking the word "proof" and moving the attached goalposts so far out that scoring is simply not possible.

How certain are you that it's not possible?

Because that isn't how induction works.

For Christ's sake, Naielis, you are the one who brought this up. If you don't know what the problem of induction actually states, or why it states it, don't try to base your argument around it.

Then again, basing your arguments around things you don't understand is pretty much all you've been doing for the full run of this thread. I don't know why I'm bothering to repeat myself.

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10-02-2017, 10:30 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(10-02-2017 03:44 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 02:58 PM)Naielis Wrote:  How certain are you that it's not possible?

Because that isn't how induction works.

For Christ's sake, Naielis, you are the one who brought this up. If you don't know what the problem of induction actually states, or why it states it, don't try to base your argument around it.

Then again, basing your arguments around things you don't understand is pretty much all you've been doing for the full run of this thread. I don't know why I'm bothering to repeat myself.

Actually I do know the Problem of Induction very well. The way your framed it was completely wrong. It doesn't simply get at uncertainty. It gets at the very ability to do induction at all. Why logical reason is there to suppose that because 500 ducks you have seen are yellow, all ducks or yellow? Why is it logical to suppose the next duck will be yellow. It isn't unless you have established Uniformity of Nature. This is never established by Pragmatists. Instead it's assumed. Now I'm starting to see that no one here has any problem with assumptions as long as you can use them to beg the question later on. So I guess you have no problem with someone saying they assume God exists? It works. Of course it only works if you already accept God so it's begging the question to say "it works" as a justification, but let's not mention that. This is exactly what the Pragmatist does.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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10-02-2017, 10:32 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(10-02-2017 03:20 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Okay. N. failed to answer my "Who have you studied?" question.

I have come to the conclusion. None.

Now you guys know what I go through teaching teenagers to drum who only love heavy metal. Big Grin

Didn't see it. I've studied Pyrrho, Descartes, Kant, Russel, Aquinas, David Armstrong, Kuhn, and a little of Plato and Aristotle. I'm still working on Armstrong right now.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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10-02-2017, 10:51 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
I hope Banjo survives the heat and can catch your reply Naielis. Thumbsup
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