Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
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11-02-2017, 06:13 AM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
I'm done now, but thanks for the polite debate Smile

I feel I'd only be repeating myself now.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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11-02-2017, 06:27 AM (This post was last modified: 11-02-2017 09:04 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(11-02-2017 05:35 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(11-02-2017 02:55 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  You're currently using a piece of technology which wouldn't exist if not for the results of science.

You're begging the question. I said remember the skyscraper. And claiming I'm not living in reality is meaningless if you admit you don't know what reality is with epistemic certainty.

There is no "epistemic certainty". Any one of the premises/assumptions could be false.
He is not immune to making errors ... and he himself has admitted it, by recounting how his views on various things have CHANGED. He will change again, many times.

The skyscraper is the fallacy of the false analogy. Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-02-2017, 07:23 AM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
It's a particularly unfortunate analogy. A skyscraper... built using the results of science. Results which demonstrate the validity of the foundations, because the skyscraper doesn't simply collapse.

This kind of binary thinking is a real handicap. Certainty, or nothing? False dichotomy, and you'll always have nothing.

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11-02-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(11-02-2017 12:14 AM)Naielis Wrote:  To even make and test models you have to assume certain things to be true.

Well, fucking duh! Facepalm

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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11-02-2017, 09:30 AM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
Quote:Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on.
Girly Man

As I quote in my signature. Best explanation I have heard. Drinking Beverage

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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11-02-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
I wasn't planning on whoring out my videos right away, but you kept hitting topics I'd covered! Cheers Tongue

Plenty more where they came from.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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11-02-2017, 11:30 AM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(11-02-2017 03:02 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(11-02-2017 02:48 AM)Banjo Wrote:  It's true! I am but a figment of an imagination.

But that of whom??? Sad

Yourself, of course! You create reality by perceiving it. Your reality is really just a virtual reality created by your brain.

We can never escape it! It's called... phenomenological, I think.

Also, your brain is a figment of my imagination by the same reasoning. And I'm a figment of yours.

Who wins, ultimately? Me! I win.

I been saying this for years and all I get is Chas going

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There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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11-02-2017, 12:32 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(11-02-2017 03:43 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 10:30 PM)Naielis Wrote:  Actually I do know the Problem of Induction very well. The way your framed it was completely wrong.

Naielis, you do not know the subjects that you are attempting to discuss "very well". You barely know them at all.

Do not presume to try and educate others on this.

(10-02-2017 10:30 PM)Naielis Wrote:  It doesn't simply get at uncertainty. It gets at the very ability to do induction at all.

Because induction is necessarily uncertain, yes. There is no logical necessity for the conclusion of an inductive argument to be true. That is what induction means.

(10-02-2017 10:30 PM)Naielis Wrote:  Why logical reason is there to suppose that because 500 ducks you have seen are yellow, all ducks or yellow?

An actual answer to this would get into what skepticism, as a philosophy, actually has to say about induction - but since you meant the question rhetorically, and also because it is 4:30 in the morning, I do not care to get into that here.

(10-02-2017 10:30 PM)Naielis Wrote:  It isn't unless you have established Uniformity of Nature. This is never established by Pragmatists. Instead it's assumed.

Even going from the definition of pragmatism that you supplied - which is still not at all equivalent to pragmatism as it is actually practiced - this is wrong. A "formal" pragmatist, according to your definition, would conclude that nature is uniform, because "formal" pragmatism is the position that what works is true, and the uniformity of nature works.

(10-02-2017 10:30 PM)Naielis Wrote:  Now I'm starting to see that no one here has any problem with assumptions as long as you can use them to beg the question later on.

Oh, shut up.

I have been very, very patient with you throughout this entire thread, but I'm about through with this soapbox routine of yours.

You don't understand the positions you are arguing for, let alone the ones you are arguing against. You repeatedly fail to understand the difference between an assumption and a conclusion, as well as models and the things they model. You don't understand semantics. You assert that meaning, or some other "immaterial aspect" that you have yet to coherently define, exists as an intrinsic part of sound waves. You think that repeating a bare assertion, or referencing another argument that makes the same bare assertion, counts as supporting it. And on and on and on and on.

You do not possess the understanding necessary to point out fallacies in others' reasoning. What you have is an overinflated ego and a collection of flash cards.

If you're interested in philosophy, shut up and learn something. If you're not, and instead are simply here to masturbate to thoughts of your own ersatz intellectual superiority, just shut up.

I think I can boil down what you are telling young Naelis to this Twain quote.

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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11-02-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(11-02-2017 05:35 AM)Naielis Wrote:  And claiming I'm not living in reality is meaningless if you admit you don't know what reality is with epistemic certainty.

Certainty????

Your study of philosophy is weak and lacks depth.

Please go away now.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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11-02-2017, 02:37 PM
RE: Skepticism is a Problem for the Pragmatist
(11-02-2017 09:47 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I wasn't planning on whoring out my videos right away, but you kept hitting topics I'd covered! Cheers Tongue

Plenty more where they came from.

You got a wattle. Grow a beard.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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