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14-10-2014, 10:19 AM
Skin
What exactly happened to it?

When I was a kid you had to be able to take things on the chin and get on with it, from bullying to a death in the family, but I've been watching the whole western world make this dramatic shift to removing everyone's skin in the last decade or so. Everything now seems to be based on doing absolutely everything possible to avoid offending anyone, and of course it's also involved people completely removing their skin to the point that they are offended by literally anything and everything. We now live in an era of people getting 'PTSD' from reading troll posts on twitter, and people threatening to kill themselves if crude comedy websites or TV shows are not outlawed. It's even gotten to a point that in some circles it's considered offensive to use gender pronouns or to make self deprecating jokes. And of course law suits based on someone being offended by something are one of the most common these days.

I have a feeling it has something to do with the dramatic shift left in academia, and the ability for like-minded people to so easily meet up via the internet, but I don't know exactly any of the origins for it.
I wonder what people's thoughts on it are here?

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Leonard Nimoy
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14-10-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: Skin
The information age is allowing people to become more aware that not everyone thinks the way they do. In short people are less ignorant than they used to be. I don't know how old you are but I have seen a continual transition from the comedians and comedy shows of the 70's and 80's that blatantly reinforced stereotypes and prejudice. The effects are subtle and insidious if you are not personally affected by them. The difference between then and now is that people are now more aware of these effects.

The problem with all forms of prejudice is that the person is treated as something that they are not regardless of what they think, do or how they behave. If you want an example to help you appreciate what I mean, then how would you feel if someone loudly proclaimed that all men are potential rapists and no matter what you said or how you behaved they stuck to that belief and treated you accordingly?

(Incidentally, people don't get PTSD from reading troll posts on twitter. The troll posts trigger the existing PTSD.)
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14-10-2014, 11:18 AM
RE: Skin
(14-10-2014 10:19 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  What exactly happened to it?

When I was a kid you had to be able to take things on the chin and get on with it, from bullying to a death in the family, but I've been watching the whole western world make this dramatic shift to removing everyone's skin in the last decade or so. Everything now seems to be based on doing absolutely everything possible to avoid offending anyone, and of course it's also involved people completely removing their skin to the point that they are offended by literally anything and everything. We now live in an era of people getting 'PTSD' from reading troll posts on twitter, and people threatening to kill themselves if crude comedy websites or TV shows are not outlawed. It's even gotten to a point that in some circles it's considered offensive to use gender pronouns or to make self deprecating jokes. And of course law suits based on someone being offended by something are one of the most common these days.

I have a feeling it has something to do with the dramatic shift left in academia, and the ability for like-minded people to so easily meet up via the internet, but I don't know exactly any of the origins for it.
I wonder what people's thoughts on it are here?

My unsubstantiated opinion: We are experiencing a bit of backlash from dramatic cultural changes in the past few decades. It's evolved from the overthrow of oppression of various populations, and people are hypersensitive. Bigotry is not yet gone. It's also easier to throw out harsh words when you don't have to look someone in the eye. We are in a new age where we are defining social etiquette with online behavior.

I'm a 29 year old American and I've watched the KKK march, and I've seen African Americans and Mexican Americans (yes, I meant to say Mexican American, not Hispanic or migrant or whatever else..) have their lives threatened by a bunch of boys with bats in a pick up truck. I've experienced having racial slurs thrown at me. My living grandparents were my age during the Civil Rights movement - I know plenty of people black and white involved on both sides of the struggle. Different areas of the world are catching up to social progression which is trending towards an egalitarian society. Right now the expectation is to be politically correct in issues of race and sex because inequality still exists. If we are conscious of the disparities, we can work to fix it.

I try to make a conscious effort to avoid being offensive to someone based on their gender or their race - although I have made a handful of offensive comments about the Middle East being a bunch of goat fuckers... I should probably work on that, I've had some really terrible run ins with Muslim middle eastern men, and it tends to be my go to insult.

I am surrounded by men that grew up in cultural environment where the expectation is for women to be submissive. I find it terribly offensive when I'm expected to be a good little girl and keep my mouth shut. I'm going to be a little sensitive. I especially don't appreciate violent threats in a world where people CAN and DO approach people offline that they met online. My husband has worked a lot of cases involving online predators tracking down their victims.

This is a forum where people come to discuss ideas, not a YouTube comment section. The behavioral expectations are much different. I will certainly be offensive to someone if they have bullshit ideologies. But I'm not going to make threats, I'm going to argue and potentially call them a dumbass.

People with fragile egos and self esteem issues is not new to this generation. It's just easier to hear about suicides because of social media. At least there aren't duels anymore because another man dared to look at the ankles of a lady. It's all about perspective.

FWIW, you're not going to see me make a suicide threat because some dumbass has the nerve to call me a slut instead of take the time to make a counter argument. I want you to think about the population here - many are from oppressive religious backgrounds. There's a reason for the ban on the discussion of the merits of pedophilia here. It could be potentially quite triggering for someone.

Hopefully my rant makes sense. My two cents, anyway.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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14-10-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: Skin
Actually that is a common theme on youtube, twitter and tumblr that almost all men are rapists, except for virgin or gay men who are instead 'rape supporters', so I understand that and why people don't like it, but I also think that the modern trend of letting it dominate your life is fundamentally destructive. A lot of things people are getting offended about a not warranted. I'm not talking about racism, sexism and homophobia, which are things which have, for the most part, been fought against openly and decently for all to see, but about the insane things. We have people running around on the internet who claim they are being 'oppressed' because a video game character has breasts, and people claiming they were the victims of 'violent harassment' because someone in the street gave them a funny look. And of course there are the people 'having panic attacks' because someone was wearing a shirt with an atheist slogan, and the people who think that their life has been ruined because one of their classmates was reading the bible.

Of course too this culture has opened up the doors for con artists and other groups who can use it to their advantage. You have people making a lot of money from being professional victims because of it, and of course various terrorist groups use it as a shield. There is also, simply because it is possible, people who jump in and make a lot of money via law suit by pretending to be offended by something, and they jump in and do it because they know they can get away with it.

(I've heard many people claim they got PTSD from being targeted by trolls actually, although yes indeed most of the talk about PTSD is just talking about 'triggers', although none of my ex-military friends have ever been triggered by words. Shouting, yes, certain symbols and scenes, yes, but not by trolls.)

EDIT: @Nurse; and I think those are perfectly valid things to be offended by, and I hope my OP didn't imply that I think that it is thin skinned to fight against real issues.

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14-10-2014, 11:28 AM
RE: Skin
(14-10-2014 11:21 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  We have people running around on the internet who claim they are being 'oppressed' because a video game character has breasts, and people claiming they were the victims of 'violent harassment' because someone in the street gave them a funny look. And of course there are the people 'having panic attacks' because someone was wearing a shirt with an atheist slogan, and the people who think that their life has been ruined because one of their classmates was reading the bible.

And we have people running around on this forum claiming the trolls are oppressed. Drinking Beverage

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14-10-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: Skin
(14-10-2014 11:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-10-2014 11:21 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  We have people running around on the internet who claim they are being 'oppressed' because a video game character has breasts, and people claiming they were the victims of 'violent harassment' because someone in the street gave them a funny look. And of course there are the people 'having panic attacks' because someone was wearing a shirt with an atheist slogan, and the people who think that their life has been ruined because one of their classmates was reading the bible.

And we have people running around on this forum claiming the trolls are oppressed. Drinking Beverage

Yet again with the straw man, Chas. I only called for an extension of the benefit of the doubt because nobody was sure what was going on, and since I was targeted and accused of being a troll as soon as I returned I think it was well warranted that I doubt your treatment of another person. If you want to get people in the loop then it's a good idea to actually relay information instead of being a sarcastic, vitriolic prick about it. I don't read minds or see private conversations.

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14-10-2014, 11:39 AM
RE: Skin
(14-10-2014 11:34 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  
(14-10-2014 11:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  And we have people running around on this forum claiming the trolls are oppressed. Drinking Beverage

Yet again with the straw man, Chas. I only called for an extension of the benefit of the doubt because nobody was sure what was going on, and since I was targeted and accused of being a troll as soon as I returned I think it was well warranted that I doubt your treatment of another person. If you want to get people in the loop then it's a good idea to actually relay information instead of being a sarcastic, vitriolic prick about it. I don't read minds or see private conversations.

OK, maybe a little bit straw man - but you jumped in where you had insufficient information of the situation.

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14-10-2014, 11:41 AM
RE: Skin
(14-10-2014 11:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-10-2014 11:34 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Yet again with the straw man, Chas. I only called for an extension of the benefit of the doubt because nobody was sure what was going on, and since I was targeted and accused of being a troll as soon as I returned I think it was well warranted that I doubt your treatment of another person. If you want to get people in the loop then it's a good idea to actually relay information instead of being a sarcastic, vitriolic prick about it. I don't read minds or see private conversations.

Not a straw man - you jumped in where you had insufficient information of the situation.

And what would have been the problem with giving the information?

The only person who could even be bothered with that was Nurse who even took the time out to find the links and send them to me. Everyone else just immediately wrote me off as being a troll, or not being popular enough to bother with.
And if I recall I was already in the situation well before it was found out that the user was just trolling.

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14-10-2014, 11:47 AM (This post was last modified: 14-10-2014 11:51 AM by Nurse.)
RE: Skin
(14-10-2014 11:21 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Actually that is a common theme on youtube, twitter and tumblr that almost all men are rapists, except for virgin or gay men who are instead 'rape supporters', so I understand that and why people don't like it, but I also think that the modern trend of letting it dominate your life is fundamentally destructive. A lot of things people are getting offended about a not warranted. I'm not talking about racism, sexism and homophobia, which are things which have, for the most part, been fought against openly and decently for all to see, but about the insane things. We have people running around on the internet who claim they are being 'oppressed' because a video game character has breasts, and people claiming they were the victims of 'violent harassment' because someone in the street gave them a funny look. And of course there are the people 'having panic attacks' because someone was wearing a shirt with an atheist slogan, and the people who think that their life has been ruined because one of their classmates was reading the bible.

Of course too this culture has opened up the doors for con artists and other groups who can use it to their advantage.You have people making a lot of money from being professional victims because of it, and of course various terrorist groups use it as a shield. There is also, simply because it is possible, people who jump in and make a lot of money via law suit by pretending to be offended by something, and they jump in and do it because they know they can get away with it.

EDIT: @Nurse; and I think those are perfectly valid things to be offended by, and I hope my OP didn't imply that I think that it is thin skinned to fight against real issues.

I think a lot of the bullshit we see is in part because of the section I bolded. It's certainly frustrating and counterproductive. And yes, there are some thin skins out there. A girl I went to high school with made EVERYTHING about race - Jesus fucking Christ, I asked if anyone had a black pen I could borrow and she'd totally obsess over me talking about black people - time to simmer down.

I'm not offended by a video game character with breasts, I just wish the gaming industry would create some games that I'd be interested in playing. I feel like my options are Sim City and Mario Kart if I don't want to blow people up. Why can't I have a Nicholas Sparks video game? Hmmm???? There are some sexist issues in the gaming industry, but I think people are distracted by getting upset about characters having the dimensions of Barbie, focusing on the concrete and not the underlying issue. Honestly, I really couldn't give a fuck that a cartoon has Triple E breasts and struts around in a thong.

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14-10-2014, 11:49 AM
RE: Skin
(14-10-2014 11:41 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  
(14-10-2014 11:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  Not a straw man - you jumped in where you had insufficient information of the situation.

And what would have been the problem with giving the information?

The only person who could even be bothered with that was Nurse who even took the time out to find the links and send them to me. Everyone else just immediately wrote me off as being a troll, or not being popular enough to bother with.
And if I recall I was already in the situation well before it was found out that the user was just trolling.

I apologize - my comment was a bit of a straw man.

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