Slavery Debate with Pastor
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22-09-2016, 06:08 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(22-09-2016 06:56 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 03:36 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  GOD didn't lie... Men did.
Do you believe God knows everything past, present, and future? If you do, then for God to give opposite, mutually exclusive, teachings in the OT and NT means God MUST have lied in one of those no matter how strongly you assert otherwise.

(21-09-2016 03:36 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yes, that is my final answer.
Then please explain when men lied and how that explains the OT/NT contradiction?
My best guess is sometime between the actual words of Moses being spoken and the time that the mosaic law was put in written form.


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22-09-2016, 06:09 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(22-09-2016 06:56 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 03:36 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  GOD didn't lie... Men did.
Do you believe God knows everything past, present, and future? If you do, then for God to give opposite, mutually exclusive, teachings in the OT and NT means God MUST have lied in one of those no matter how strongly you assert otherwise.

(21-09-2016 03:36 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yes, that is my final answer.
Then please explain when men lied and how that explains the OT/NT contradiction?
The contradiction is explained by the OT being a misinterpretation.

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22-09-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
Slavery was a social norm in most of antiquity even in prior polytheism. In antiquity humanity was tribal, and humans lived under local tribal royalty and everyone fought everyone else over resources. So when you defeated your enemy those you defeated became your bounty. The ancient Egyptians had slaves as well as the ancient Greeks and Romans. Modern Christianity and Jews reject slavery, not because it was condoned in antiquity, but because evolutionary empathy eventually caused empathetic humans to reject the old ways.

There is nothing in the books of Abraham of any of the three that bans the bartering of other humans. If you look at any major religion's history in it's entirety including Hinduism and Buddhism and Sikhism you will find pockets of histories of conquest in antiquity, where the dominate power took the defeated as slaves .

The modern world is far too separated by time and multiple generations to understand that in antiquity humans were ignorant and life was short and survival showed far less mercy for the rival back then.

But it is absolute bullshit to claim slavery was condemned by the bible, or Jews or the Koran. As I said prior, slavery was even a social norm in Egyptian and Roman and Greek antiquity. If anyone has seen the Pompeii pictures of the plaster molds of the victims of the 79 eruption, the anthropologists uncovered a woman protecting a child from the ash, but said she wasn't the mother, but a slave girl to the family.

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22-09-2016, 10:54 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(22-09-2016 06:09 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-09-2016 06:56 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Do you believe God knows everything past, present, and future? If you do, then for God to give opposite, mutually exclusive, teachings in the OT and NT means God MUST have lied in one of those no matter how strongly you assert otherwise.

Then please explain when men lied and how that explains the OT/NT contradiction?
The contradiction is explained by the OT being a misinterpretation.

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You really sound like a dipshit every time you post...or to quote Idiocracy: "You talk like a fag and yer shit's retarded."
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23-09-2016, 04:24 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(22-09-2016 06:51 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Slavery was a social norm in most of antiquity even in prior polytheism. In antiquity humanity was tribal, and humans lived under local tribal royalty and everyone fought everyone else over resources. So when you defeated your enemy those you defeated became your bounty. The ancient Egyptians had slaves as well as the ancient Greeks and Romans. Modern Christianity and Jews reject slavery, not because it was condoned in antiquity, but because evolutionary empathy eventually caused empathetic humans to reject the old ways.

There is nothing in the books of Abraham of any of the three that bans the bartering of other humans. If you look at any major religion's history in it's entirety including Hinduism and Buddhism and Sikhism you will find pockets of histories of conquest in antiquity, where the dominate power took the defeated as slaves .

The modern world is far too separated by time and multiple generations to understand that in antiquity humans were ignorant and life was short and survival showed far less mercy for the rival back then.

But it is absolute bullshit to claim slavery was condemned by the bible, or Jews or the Koran. As I said prior, slavery was even a social norm in Egyptian and Roman and Greek antiquity. If anyone has seen the Pompeii pictures of the plaster molds of the victims of the 79 eruption, the anthropologists uncovered a woman protecting a child from the ash, but said she wasn't the mother, but a slave girl to the family.
Slavery being socially acceptable does explain why it isn't condemned in the OT to some extent, but that doesn't refute the commands of the Christ, which in upholding, one would not have the capacity to own the life of another.



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23-09-2016, 04:31 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 04:24 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Slavery being socially acceptable does explain why it isn't condemned in the OT to some extent, but that doesn't refute the commands of the Christ, which in upholding, one would not have the capacity to own the life of another.

What about that part when is says to maintain the Law?

Always remember that 'Christ-like' actions include turning a family against itself, driving animals over cliffs, withering vegetation, overturning tables and attacking people with whips.


Plus, you know, even if Jesus had condemned slavery (which he didn't), unlimited forgiveness is but a single thought away. So why condemn anything, right? It's all a horse apiece.

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23-09-2016, 04:40 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 04:24 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(22-09-2016 06:51 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Slavery was a social norm in most of antiquity even in prior polytheism. In antiquity humanity was tribal, and humans lived under local tribal royalty and everyone fought everyone else over resources. So when you defeated your enemy those you defeated became your bounty. The ancient Egyptians had slaves as well as the ancient Greeks and Romans. Modern Christianity and Jews reject slavery, not because it was condoned in antiquity, but because evolutionary empathy eventually caused empathetic humans to reject the old ways.

There is nothing in the books of Abraham of any of the three that bans the bartering of other humans. If you look at any major religion's history in it's entirety including Hinduism and Buddhism and Sikhism you will find pockets of histories of conquest in antiquity, where the dominate power took the defeated as slaves .

The modern world is far too separated by time and multiple generations to understand that in antiquity humans were ignorant and life was short and survival showed far less mercy for the rival back then.

But it is absolute bullshit to claim slavery was condemned by the bible, or Jews or the Koran. As I said prior, slavery was even a social norm in Egyptian and Roman and Greek antiquity. If anyone has seen the Pompeii pictures of the plaster molds of the victims of the 79 eruption, the anthropologists uncovered a woman protecting a child from the ash, but said she wasn't the mother, but a slave girl to the family.
Slavery being socially acceptable does explain why it isn't condemned in the OT to some extent, but that doesn't refute the commands of the Christ, which in upholding, one would not have the capacity to own the life of another.



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So god didnt interfere because it was "socially acceptable"? Doesnt sound onmipotent to me.

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23-09-2016, 04:48 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 04:40 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  So god didnt interfere because it was "socially acceptable"? Doesnt sound onmipotent to me.

Oh fuck, that's way better! God is worried about offending our sensitive cultural norms!? Laughat

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We should ask him again about those iron chariots! Laugh out load

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23-09-2016, 04:53 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(22-09-2016 06:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  My best guess is sometime between the actual words of Moses being spoken and the time that the mosaic law was put in written form.

We have no good reason to believe that there was an actual Moses. The Exodus did not happen, the stories about being enslaved in Egypt are nonsensical, and the evidence is that the Jews were Canaanites from the start. It's all so heavily mythologized that there is little worth taking as history.

(22-09-2016 06:09 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The contradiction is explained by the OT being a misinterpretation.

Perhaps it is your misinterpretation of the NT that is the problem. You have no reason for your beliefs so cherry-picking what agrees with you is pointless.

(23-09-2016 04:24 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Slavery being socially acceptable does explain why it isn't condemned in the OT to some extent,

Condemn slavery "to some extent" ? Laughat
What a tool.

Quote: but that doesn't refute the commands of the Christ, which in upholding, one would not have the capacity to own the life of another.

Except that "the Christ" assumed slavery as a fact of life and never condemned it. He also supposedly said that "not a jot or tittle" of the old law was to be ignored and that includes the rules on who can be enslaved. You select the bits that you can interpret in the way you like. You aren't getting anything from the bible, you are forcing the bible to conform to your views.

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23-09-2016, 05:14 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 04:53 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
Quote: but that doesn't refute the commands of the Christ, which in upholding, one would not have the capacity to own the life of another.

Except that "the Christ" assumed slavery as a fact of life and never condemned it. He also supposedly said that "not a jot or tittle" of the old law was to be ignored and that includes the rules on who can be enslaved. You select the bits that you can interpret in the way you like. You aren't getting anything from the bible, you are forcing the bible to conform to your views.

Indeedy. Popsicle if you're correct, you'd a thunk JC aka "The Man" woulda said something like "Hey you fucks wrote the Bible wrong" before getting used as Roman abstract art.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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