Slavery Debate with Pastor
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23-09-2016, 09:03 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 08:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  we were given freedom.
If i have free will, then god can not know what i will decide in 5mins. He cant be omniscient.
If he knows what i will think/decide in 5min, then i dont have free will (because it has been known before i "decide").
Pick one

He can not "let me decide" but know my decision in advance. Its self contradictory.

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23-09-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 09:03 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 08:48 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  we were given freedom.
If i have free will, then god can not know what i will decide in 5mins. He cant be omniscient.
If he knows what i will think/decide in 5min, then i dont have free will (because it has been known before i "decide").
Pick one

He can not "let me decide" but know my decision in advance. Its self contradictory.
You seem to not grasp omnipotence and omniscience, limiting that capacities of GOD to the capacities of creation. I needn't pick either. Though I was free to do my own will throughout my life, that in no way means that GOD didn't foreknow my choices even before my very conception. The same goes for everyone.

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23-09-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
So god knew that I was going to burn for all eternity, before he even created the universe, because I am totally incapable of believing his bullshit. I would have been better off not being born. Thanks a lot god. Asshole.
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23-09-2016, 09:58 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 09:11 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 09:03 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  If i have free will, then god can not know what i will decide in 5mins. He cant be omniscient.
If he knows what i will think/decide in 5min, then i dont have free will (because it has been known before i "decide").
Pick one

He can not "let me decide" but know my decision in advance. Its self contradictory.
Though I was free to do my own will throughout my life, that in no way means that GOD didn't foreknow my choices even before my very conception.

If god knows now (and always knew) that you will think of the number "9" in 5minutes, then please try to have free thought and think of another number in 5minutes.

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23-09-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 08:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 07:43 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Why would a god who can do anything give us the law in a manner where it's even possible to receive it in any form except exactly as intended by that god? Consider
Because we are liable for our own actions. We have a sort of freedom to do our will, whatever it may be.

I cannot give a definitive answer to why GOD chose to lead people in such a way that they might veer from His chosen path. Again, my best guess has to do with potential and freedom.

Basically GOD didn't form us as robots but with freedom of sorts... The freedom to choose to be bound to one's own wants, pride, and greed; and also the freedom to set aside personal want in favor of what will benefit all towards the singular accord or harmony.
God could say clearly what his law is and we would still have the free will to obey or disobey it (assuming obeying is in the realm of what's possible). But with the possibility of interpreting it wrong, here is what bothers me:

God: "You will go to hell if you don't obey my law. Here is my law, well sort of... it's encoded, heh, heh... figure it out and follow it or spend eternity burning in hell in damnation. By the way, be sure to worship me every sabbath too because I'm all loving and deserve it."
Blink

(23-09-2016 08:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I appreciate your tone and honest short questions. I know my answers may not be what you want to hear, and further may not even make sense to you. Hopefully we can continue conversation though, and she'd more light on these things.
And I also appreciate yours. I strongly believe that any opposing viewpoint stated politely deserves a polite reply no matter how different it may be from my own.

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23-09-2016, 10:16 AM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2016 10:20 AM by unfogged.)
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 07:33 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The law is written on the hearts of men through the selfless conscience. The wasn't removed or changed except in the way we receive it. And really I doubt that has changed as that would mean that the ancient Jewish had no conscience rather than just didn't use it.

That is meaningless babble. You are not talking about anything that is demonstrably true; it's all just made-up nonsense.

Quote:I stand by my explanation that literally meaning or interpretation was and is wrong. This isn't cherry picking. It is verified in the OT, the NT, the conscience, and other core scriptures of the religious.

You have explained nothing. The very act of saying there are "core" scriptures is an act of cherry-picking. The only thing that is verified is your ability to pick and choose the bits you like and ignore the rest.

(23-09-2016 07:53 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I don't have all the answers.

You do not have ANY answers. All you have is a shitload of supposition.

(23-09-2016 08:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Pharaoh wasn't forced to comply at all.

The text is quite clear that the god was controlling Pharoah to prevent him from capitulating before the show was over. It's a good thing that there's no evidence that any of that actually happened since it makes the god character out to be a real jackass.

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23-09-2016, 12:05 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 08:51 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Pharaoh wasn't forced to comply at all.

Oh, so when god "hardened Pharaoh's heart" and he subsequently did the exact opposite of what he was going to, that was what? How the fuck do you spin that as anything other than your god directly dicking around with someones vaunted free-will for his own ends?

You know, besides acknowledging that the who story is bogus mythology?

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23-09-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 07:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 05:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  Indeedy. Popsicle if you're correct, you'd a thunk JC aka "The Man" woulda said something like "Hey you fucks wrote the Bible wrong" before getting used as Roman abstract art.
Indeed the perspective of the Pharisees is spoken against by the Christ throughout the nt

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But the written law is upheld at all times by JC, all that Moses and the Prophets, all that God-ordained genocide *and* indeed slavery. So JC was clearly not in opposition to it and in fact very clearly said that he was all for it.

You're determined to wear your insufferably rosy view of Christianity to the end but it is in truth a crap religion with no claim to teach decent ethics. Get over it.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-09-2016, 02:52 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
Few things

1. Free will itself was an imposition upon us without choice

2.If your going to Slicks stupid but god simply chooses to not know our descions before hand argument the choice to remain ignorant is still a choice.and thus responsibility.

3.It's the responsibility of a law maker to make there laws clear any who don't clearly suck at being a law maker it's not humanities fault if the laws were misunderstood or miss written it's gods fault for allowing them to become so

4.Imposing on freewill isn't always by necessity evil(thou the overwhelming amount of the time it is) if the coast guard rescue someone attempting suicide are they evil?

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23-09-2016, 08:24 PM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2016 10:18 PM by popsthebuilder.)
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 04:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 04:24 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Slavery being socially acceptable does explain why it isn't condemned in the OT to some extent, but that doesn't refute the commands of the Christ, which in upholding, one would not have the capacity to own the life of another.

What about that part when is says to maintain the Law?

Always remember that 'Christ-like' actions include turning a family against itself, driving animals over cliffs, withering vegetation, overturning tables and attacking people with whips.


Plus, you know, even if Jesus had condemned slavery (which he didn't), unlimited forgiveness is but a single thought away. So why condemn anything, right? It's all a horse apiece.
What? What horrid atrocity do you liken to how you perceive God should act?

Unlimited forgiveness.... Wholly regardless of one's continued knowing negative acts is like justification to commit whatever atrocity one might desire. But you think that is what the Christ should have proclaimed?! Wow, really. You trying to smear the character of Jesus is typical surely, but claiming GOD should forgive all without limit whatsoever is just sad... You need to seek out your own motives...and correct them.

I wish you the best.

Peace

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