Slavery Debate with Pastor
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23-09-2016, 11:08 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 10:33 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 10:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Jesus the Christ was very much in opposition to the manipulation of the law that had taken place... Read the book

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Been there, done that. Scholars with far more education than either of us, and entire fields of experts, came to a consensus about the books. They show clear evidence of being edited, manipulated, and re-written over and over again for political gain; not including all of the mistranslations and errors in copying that have inserted other mistakes. If there ever was an original and unaltered version of The Law, we'll never be able to work our way back to it. There are more changes between different copies of the manuscripts we have, than there are total words in the Bible itself.

But I'm sure you've managed to suss out the one correct interpretation, right? You and every other religious zealot throughout time, you fucking poser.
What a...

I already stated that the law is written on your heart. It is discerned by the selfless conscience.

Single interpretation? More like individual interpretation relative to me personally yet still wholly based and backed by all of scripture of all religion that I have read thus far.

Try it sometime, or just keep depending on the work of others to draw your own conclusions that are pertinent to your own existence and direction.

The choice is yours. Peace

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23-09-2016, 11:11 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 10:33 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 10:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I didn't say we had utterly free will.

Yes, you did!
Quote:Though I was free to do my own will throughout my life
Nice... There is an obvious difference in utter free will and a perceived freedom of choice to some extent.

Though I know what I wish to do, and those things seem quite within my grasp to easily attain to; something stops me.

This isn't utter free will, and I have observed the lack of utter full free will my entire life.


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23-09-2016, 11:35 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 11:11 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 10:33 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Yes, you did!
Nice... There is an obvious difference in utter free will and a perceived freedom of choice to some extent.

Though I know what I wish to do, and those things seem quite within my grasp to easily attain to; something stops me.

This isn't utter free will, and I have observed the lack of utter full free will my entire life.


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And again you derailed the conversation with your ramblings. Back to my original point:

Quote:If god knows now (and always knew) that you will think of the number "9" in 5minutes, then please try to have free thought and think of another number in 5minutes.

So what number did you think of, and did you ever had a chance to think of another number if god already knew what number you were going ot think about?

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24-09-2016, 05:58 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 09:58 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  And all will be judged by works.

If you ignore the bits where it says you will be judged by faith alone. Nice cherry-picking there.

(23-09-2016 10:12 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  By core scriptures I mean those which are core to religion which other writings stemmed from. As if every book ever written on the subject matter is right.

Not using others own studies or conclusions to build my own isn't cherry picking no matter how many times you say it is.

Nice attempt to dodge. You cherry-pick from the bible (see faith vs works above). If you consider parts of the bible to be "core scripture" and other parts to be just "other writings" then you have first to identify which parts are "core" and by what criteria you identified that.

(23-09-2016 10:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Jesus the Christ was very much in opposition to the manipulation of the law that had taken place... Read the book

We have. He wasn't, except when it benefited him (e.g. working on the sabbath and stealing donkeys). He specifically stated that the law must be upheld when dealing with others. He accepted slavery as a normal, expected practice. The bible has some good suggestions but, overall, is NOT a good source for a moral code. To get that you have to pick and choose those bits that aren't horrendous and you do that by bringing your beliefs to the bible and not by getting them from the bible.

Why exactly are you here again? You do nothing but repeat the same obvious bullshit over and over. As a preacher you are a failure since you can't support a single one of your claims.

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24-09-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 11:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I already stated that the law is written on your heart. It is discerned by the selfless conscience.

Provide evidence that what you come up with was instilled by a supernatural agent and is not simply the result of having evolved as a social species. I see nothing that requires a supernatural explanation and you have offered zero evidence to support your contention.

Quote:Single interpretation? More like individual interpretation relative to me personally yet still wholly based and backed by all of scripture of all religion that I have read thus far.

You mean wholly supported by the bits you accept as "core scripture" because they agree with you. It's not surprising that those bits support you - you wouldn't be including them if they didn't. Facepalm

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24-09-2016, 06:08 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
Unfogged,

Pleasing works in the sight of GOD are those that are a product of effectual faith.

Please show me where it says we will be judged by faith alone. All will be judged yet some are without faith so how is it that all will be judged by faith alone again? Do you contend that based on scripture all will not be judged?

And I don't consider parts of the bible to not be core scripture. The whole book is core scripture, just like the entire Quran, the Zend Avesta, the book of Enoch, the Bhagavad-Gita and other core religious sacred texts. These are all core writings of the faithful. Derivatives stemming from these core books or writings are necessarily not core writings.

Why am I here? Why are you? Why is that relevant.

And I'm not a preacher. Your ridiculous statements are a bore. It will be exciting when and if you ever change your method of insult. It would be really interesting if you attempted to make a point without insult what so ever. I won't be holding my breath though. Sorry

Peace

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24-09-2016, 06:38 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 11:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 10:33 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Been there, done that. Scholars with far more education than either of us, and entire fields of experts, came to a consensus about the books. They show clear evidence of being edited, manipulated, and re-written over and over again for political gain; not including all of the mistranslations and errors in copying that have inserted other mistakes. If there ever was an original and unaltered version of The Law, we'll never be able to work our way back to it. There are more changes between different copies of the manuscripts we have, than there are total words in the Bible itself.

But I'm sure you've managed to suss out the one correct interpretation, right? You and every other religious zealot throughout time, you fucking poser.
What a...

I already stated that the law is written on your heart. It is discerned by the selfless conscience.

Single interpretation? More like individual interpretation relative to me personally yet still wholly based and backed by all of scripture of all religion that I have read thus far.

Try it sometime, or just keep depending on the work of others to draw your own conclusions that are pertinent to your own existence and direction.

The choice is yours. Peace

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Well, my 'heart' is telling me you're a cunt.

Divine inspiration? Well, if you say so dipshit. Drinking Beverage

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24-09-2016, 07:05 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(24-09-2016 06:08 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Pleasing works in the sight of GOD are those that are a product of effectual faith.

Meaningless until you demonstrate that this god of yours exists.

Quote:Please show me where it says we will be judged by faith alone. All will be judged yet some are without faith so how is it that all will be judged by faith alone again? Do you contend that based on scripture all will not be judged?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Luke 5:29 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Acts 16:31 Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galations 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

among others... some passages allude to acts being the product of faith but it is very clear in many sections that faith is the only important thing.

Quote:And I don't consider parts of the bible to not be core scripture. The whole book is core scripture, just like the entire Quran, the Zend Avesta, the book of Enoch, the Bhagavad-Gita and other core religious sacred texts. These are all core writings of the faithful. Derivatives stemming from these core books or writings are necessarily not core writings.

What counts as scripture but not core scripture? What objective criteria can be applied and how have you determined that it applies to the books you label as core?

Textual criticism and evaluation is a science, if an inexact one. Please demonstrate that you know what you are talking about and aren't just making up shit as you go.

Quote:Why am I here? Why are you? Why is that relevant.

Just wondering what you think you are accomplishing by trying to push your particular brand of nonsense on a group of people that reject it.

Quote:And I'm not a preacher. Your ridiculous statements are a bore. It will be exciting when and if you ever change your method of insult. It would be really interesting if you attempted to make a point without insult what so ever. I won't be holding my breath though. Sorry

You are nothing but a preacher. You continually come in here telling us what your god wants and what we should believe and how we should behave to please your personal conception of your god. You've got nothing to offer anybody who thinks at all rationally. You are a joke.

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24-09-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(24-09-2016 06:05 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(23-09-2016 11:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I already stated that the law is written on your heart. It is discerned by the selfless conscience.

Provide evidence that what you come up with was instilled by a supernatural agent and is not simply the result of having evolved as a social species. I see nothing that requires a supernatural explanation and you have offered zero evidence to support your contention.

Quote:Single interpretation? More like individual interpretation relative to me personally yet still wholly based and backed by all of scripture of all religion that I have read thus far.

You mean wholly supported by the bits you accept as "core scripture" because they agree with you. It's not surprising that those bits support you - you wouldn't be including them if they didn't. Facepalm
It could be understood as a result of evolution, sure. Yet evolution of life is a part of existence which, of course, is of, or was formed by GOD. Why do you try to keep evolution and formation separate? As if evolution formed itself. That's for a different time. My point is that the conscience is a natural state. The selfless conscience may be as well as we can see altruism in nature. You can say these states of being evolved from other states, but you cannot justifiably claim that those initial states, whatever they may have been, were self forming.

So the Holy Spirit, that different spirit from self and greed, may very well be a dormant yet native state of being for all. And this natural form that is veiled and hidden by societal norms and greed is, like all existence whatsoever, of GOD.

you say it may have evolved, but I contend that it is the Spirit of life that is in all, and has been since existence started. No, stop asking, I can't prove it, it is technically hypothetical. But honestly, I have found absolutely no holes in said hypothetical as of yet. I'm still looking.

Anyway, back at it

Peace

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24-09-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(23-09-2016 10:09 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Impulse,

The traditional concept of hell is up for misrepresentation and faulty interpretation as well.

And the law... It is written on the hearts of each and every one of us, if we so choose to hear it. It isn't up for interpretation. You will be judged against what YOU know to be right, not what some erroneous, prideful, greedy man deems fit by his own manipulation and selfish motives.

In man's pride and greed lies their own misdirection, leading the masses astray from that holy righteous path and way. These are those who will face the most terrible of punishment. Not the ignorant, but the knowing manipulator.

Peace friend, speaking to you is a nice change of pace.

Me speaking of misdirection pride greed and manipulation was a reference to those traditional denominations full of vanity, and in no way was meant towards you, or insinuated.



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What is judgment about if not heaven and hell? Anyway, hell was an example, but not the point. The point is how can a god hold anyone accountable (i.e., judgment) if the law that is supposed to be followed isn't clear at all? Consider

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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