Slavery Debate with Pastor
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25-09-2016, 04:54 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(24-09-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Impulse,

I think it is a matter of doing what is right because it is the right thing to do, not for reward.

Conversely, we do the wrong thing because of greed, indeed generally not even contemplating what negative effects it may have. Surely people kill, rape, steal, and hurt because of some form of greed and personal attainment or reward.

Indeed it is a case of doing that other thing (holy), as opposed to being bound to what one desires in respect to attainment.

On your point;

One is accountable for only what is obvious and clear to them.

This doesn't excuse self manipulation due to greed, fear, or pride however. Most certainly all are only responsible for themselves, except for that one who knowingly steers others astray. Again, knowing is synonymous with self deceiving in this particular case.

All these things are known personally and with a surety if one only strive to use the conscience within all contexts of personal thought what so ever. That is not to say in any way that ANY here do not use their conscience to some level already.

Peace, sorry for the delay in getting back with you.

I'm sorry if it sounds haughty, or like word salad or whatever. These things are difficult to explain at this time.



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With all due respect, this sounds like an explanation made to fit a prior belief. Why doesn't God simply make it all clear right from the beginning?

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26-09-2016, 06:09 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(25-09-2016 04:54 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(24-09-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Impulse,

I think it is a matter of doing what is right because it is the right thing to do, not for reward.

Conversely, we do the wrong thing because of greed, indeed generally not even contemplating what negative effects it may have. Surely people kill, rape, steal, and hurt because of some form of greed and personal attainment or reward.

Indeed it is a case of doing that other thing (holy), as opposed to being bound to what one desires in respect to attainment.

On your point;

One is accountable for only what is obvious and clear to them.

This doesn't excuse self manipulation due to greed, fear, or pride however. Most certainly all are only responsible for themselves, except for that one who knowingly steers others astray. Again, knowing is synonymous with self deceiving in this particular case.

All these things are known personally and with a surety if one only strive to use the conscience within all contexts of personal thought what so ever. That is not to say in any way that ANY here do not use their conscience to some level already.

Peace, sorry for the delay in getting back with you.

I'm sorry if it sounds haughty, or like word salad or whatever. These things are difficult to explain at this time.



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With all due respect, this sounds like an explanation made to fit a prior belief. Why doesn't God simply make it all clear right from the beginning?
It is for us to learn through our own experiences and trials and heart.

Please keep in mind that while the bible and other scripture are inspired by GOD and the Holy Spirit, they are still written by men. Obviously some of these individuals where more rightly guided than others.

What I'm trying to say is that though the will of God is not confusing, or complex as it pertains to us, man, not GOD, in their vanity and greed have taken those simple truths and made them nearly unrecognizable. Not intentionally and not wholly without being allowed to do so by GOD.

I do not have a definitive answer for your question.

Maybe I will at some time, but not now. I do apologize and thank you again for your humble leveled approach.

Peace friend

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26-09-2016, 06:40 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(26-09-2016 06:09 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It is for us to learn through our own experiences and trials and heart.
To assist us with this learning task God presents us with a book full of misdirection and bullshit.

Quote:Please keep in mind that while the bible and other scripture are inspired by GOD and the Holy Spirit, they are still written by men. Obviously some of these individuals where more rightly guided than others.
By "rightly guided" you mean said things you agree with. Who among the authors of the Bible was rightly guided? Was it the guy who wrote about the rape of the Moabite women? Maybe it was the guy who wrote about summoning bears to eat kids who insult old men? Perhaps it was Jesus who confidently said that his detractors would burn in hell for eternity? Maybe St Paul, the homophobe and woman hater?

Quote:What I'm trying to say is that though the will of God is not confusing, or complex as it pertains to us, man, not GOD, in their vanity and greed have taken those simple truths and made them nearly unrecognizable. Not intentionally and not wholly without being allowed to do so by GOD.
Tell me what simple truth you learn from the Bible that is not a. already obvious or b. bigotted in some way?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-09-2016, 06:55 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(26-09-2016 06:09 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  What I'm trying to say is that though the will of God is not confusing, or complex as it pertains to us, man, not GOD, in their vanity and greed have taken those simple truths and made them nearly unrecognizable. Not intentionally and not wholly without being allowed to do so by GOD.

Good grief Charlie Brown!

Ok, so any book we reference has truths that are not recognizable by us, so we can chuck out any religious texts. Good deal, I agree.

But if you insist that you have some special hot line to god, then you are subject to the fog of undecipherable truth like everyone else, so we can chuck out everything you say. You are not exempt from it. Facepalm

Quote:Not intentionally and not wholly without being allowed to do so by GOD.

So this alleged god intentionally did this to make truth undecipherable, so we have to assume that some special power gives us a clear insight into some sort of vague truth from this alleged god, the same god that intentionally deceived us. Facepalm

Here's the 64000 dollar question- Why should anyone believe any assertion you put forth?

1. You've just asserted that ALL religious texts have failed

2. You've asserted that your alleged god did it intentionally

Are you asserting that you are the only one that got it right?

If you are, then your ego rivals your imaginary god itself.

Do you think you might want to pull it back a bit? Maybe make a statement that you have no way of knowing god or proving his existence? That whatever you say carries no more weight than any other person simply making stuff up?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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26-09-2016, 07:32 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(26-09-2016 06:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(26-09-2016 06:09 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It is for us to learn through our own experiences and trials and heart.
To assist us with this learning task God presents us with a book full of misdirection and bullshit.

Quote:Please keep in mind that while the bible and other scripture are inspired by GOD and the Holy Spirit, they are still written by men. Obviously some of these individuals where more rightly guided than others.
By "rightly guided" you mean said things you agree with. Who among the authors of the Bible was rightly guided? Was it the guy who wrote about the rape of the Moabite women? Maybe it was the guy who wrote about summoning bears to eat kids who insult old men? Perhaps it was Jesus who confidently said that his detractors would burn in hell for eternity? Maybe St Paul, the homophobe and woman hater?

Quote:What I'm trying to say is that though the will of God is not confusing, or complex as it pertains to us, man, not GOD, in their vanity and greed have taken those simple truths and made them nearly unrecognizable. Not intentionally and not wholly without being allowed to do so by GOD.
Tell me what simple truth you learn from the Bible that is not a. already obvious or b. bigotted in some way?
It isn't that these things are as a necessity, only learned from the bible.

The bible has a way of bringing these things, which are truths within us all, into remembrance.

As far as those who were and are rightly guided wholly;

Abraham, Enoch, Jesus of Nazareth, and Job. Though there are more, their names elude me at this time. There is no difference between them though and no distinction is needed either as they are all singly, and wholly of GOD.

Just to be clear; I never said the bible was the only source of guidance at all.

Peace

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26-09-2016, 09:10 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(26-09-2016 06:09 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It is for us to learn through our own experiences and trials and heart.
Unfortunately, that will lead different people to different conclusions even though all may believe their conclusion is "right" or at least "morally right". This seems like an odd approach from an entity that can do anything.

(26-09-2016 06:09 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Please keep in mind that while the bible and other scripture are inspired by GOD and the Holy Spirit, they are still written by men. Obviously some of these individuals where more rightly guided than others.
Then you do not believe in an inerrant bible. (Good!) So then how do you decide which parts are "more rightly guided" versus other parts that are not so much.

(26-09-2016 06:09 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  What I'm trying to say is that though the will of God is not confusing, or complex as it pertains to us, man, not GOD, in their vanity and greed have taken those simple truths and made them nearly unrecognizable. Not intentionally and not wholly without being allowed to do so by GOD.
If God allowed this, then he allowed it not only for the ones who twisted the truth, but also for the unknowing followers who believe the twisted truth to be accurate. What kind of god allows such a thing?

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26-09-2016, 08:29 PM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2016 04:29 AM by popsthebuilder.)
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
TheInquisition,

I did not assert that all religious texts have failed. I did not assert that God intentionally mislead, but that GOD allowed creation to lead itself astray.

I would never assert that I am the only one that got it right or that I know everything.

I have made nothing up.

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26-09-2016, 08:45 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
Impulse,

You say that experience and trials and the conscience would lead all to different opinions of morality, but I have explained it before; if you remove the idea of benefit of self from moral equations then they become no longer subjective, but objective.
You think this is a poor way for GOD to show us our direction, but it is direct personal and as such irrefutable.

It really isn't a decision that is made in regards to knowing what is right or wrong. How do you know what is right or wrong? With your conscience right? Now imagine removing consequences and rewards for self from these same moral decisions; upon doing this you will understand that it indeed removes the subjective aspects. These same moral truths that can be reached while one is being consciously introspective and selfless can also be identified with great ease when reading things supposing to be moral in nature. I will happily go into more detail, just try and explain where I'm loosing you.

The type of GOD that would allow it's creation to be free as opposed to slaves to its will even if it was wholly for their sake, is a benevolent God with omnipotence and omniscience, that too would have known that though many, being free night veer away from the right direction, that very freedom and experience/history may be the only just way to guide them and allow their freedom to choose their own will based on their own motives.

Why would a benevolent GOD command all to be like soulless robots only mindlessly varying out orders?

Peace



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26-09-2016, 10:37 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(26-09-2016 07:32 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Abraham, Enoch, Jesus of Nazareth, and Job. Though there are more, their names elude me at this time. There is no difference between them though and no distinction is needed either as they are all singly, and wholly of GOD.

Which would be why they are fictional I suppose. Drinking Beverage

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27-09-2016, 12:31 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(26-09-2016 07:32 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Abraham, Enoch, Jesus of Nazareth, and Job. Though there are more, their names elude me at this time. There is no difference between them though and no distinction is needed either as they are all singly, and wholly of GOD.

How do you know that?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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