Slavery Debate with Pastor
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20-09-2016, 11:12 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
As for your defintion of slavery it's oddly narrow

1.being paid dose not make one not a slave a slave can be materially well off this does not negate the fact there a slave

2. volunteering to be a slave is still slavery as taking advantage of peoples lack of power in society or poverty for your own ends is no less awful then kidnapping and selling them

3.but as we have pointed out the OT makes it clear you can sell people you can take people as war spoils (kidnapping)

4. Now your going to excuse all this away by saying but Jesus said as we have pointed out there no conflict to be found in Jesus teachings as they can easily interpreted multiple ways

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21-09-2016, 12:19 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(20-09-2016 07:46 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 05:57 AM)morondog Wrote:  So why did St Paul, operating *after* Christ, not specifically point this out, but still encourage slaves to obey their masters, while finding time to denigrate homosexuality?
How would I know? I never claimed Paul was perfect, and he surely didn't.

How glorious Smile So now we can ignore all the bits of the bible that we don't agree with? ETA: That means pretty much all of it. After all, imperfect humans wrote it Smile

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-09-2016, 12:47 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 12:19 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 07:46 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  How would I know? I never claimed Paul was perfect, and he surely didn't.

How glorious Smile So now we can ignore all the bits of the bible that we don't agree with? ETA: That means pretty much all of it. After all, imperfect humans wrote it Smile

agreed if were going to dismiss paul who else can we dismiss even if say not quotes from Jesus or god himself well human wrote those down so.....

as for you trying to twist Jesus slave parable i don't think you realize that you proved fogs point for him

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21-09-2016, 12:58 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(20-09-2016 12:12 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 11:27 AM)KerimF Wrote:  You likely couldn't get anything clear from what I say.
So please forgive me because I had to say it just for the record Big Grin

I understood the words, disagree with much of it, and don't see how any of it is a response to my post or the larger discussion. Since you apparently wrote something obtuse deliberately, does that mean you were stumped?

Sorry for not being clearer.
My previous post was a direct reply to yours on which you liked proving, by funny expressions, that a man (like you and I) could be smarter than the Will/Power that forced us all to exist in this life. Unless you think it is possible for a man-made robot to be smarter (related to intelligence, hence not being stronger and/or having a better memory as a being) than its maker(s).

Truth be said, I added "You likely couldn't get anything clear from what I say." because I have already noticed that most readers here have no time to explore new ideas. And this is natural. Even a student at school won't understand most of what his teachers say if he is not interested in studying in the first place. In other words, I liked to tell you that I fully understand in case you are not interested in knowing that any knowledge should be provided in steps since the human brain has to evolve with time... along history, also with age now.

Wish you the best.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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21-09-2016, 01:05 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(20-09-2016 07:53 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 06:09 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Why wasnt Jesus, a god reincarnate(!) able (or willing?) to just simply say: "Slavery sucks. Stop that shit".
Jesus didn't claim to be GOD. Everything He said was in parables so the humble and rightly guided could understand. But the unbeliever would be confused. And by unbeliever I do not mean atheists.

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why.couldnt.he.just.say."slavery.sucks"?
I can!
I care about everybody, believer or not.
Who is the better human being?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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21-09-2016, 01:10 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
@everybody else.

Kerim and Pops in the same thread, you know what that means:

Judgement day is near! Be prepared for the second coming!

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21-09-2016, 01:32 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 01:10 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Be prepared for the second coming!

I need an umbrella.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-09-2016, 01:44 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 01:05 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 07:53 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Jesus didn't claim to be GOD. Everything He said was in parables so the humble and rightly guided could understand. But the unbeliever would be confused. And by unbeliever I do not mean atheists.

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why.couldnt.he.just.say."slavery.sucks"?
I can!
I care about everybody, believer or not.
Who is the better human being?

1. is pops rejecting the trinity ?

2.if his goal was to be clear he failed miserably when he could have easily have said owning people is wrong

3.and lastly as i have said there is nothing incompatible between slavery and Jesus's teachings if even his own direct dispols couldn't find a way out

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21-09-2016, 01:59 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2016 02:05 AM by KerimF.)
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(20-09-2016 07:53 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 06:09 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Why wasnt Jesus, a god reincarnate(!) able (or willing?) to just simply say: "Slavery sucks. Stop that shit".
Jesus didn't claim to be GOD. Everything He said was in parables so the humble and rightly guided could understand. But the unbeliever would be confused. And by unbeliever I do not mean atheists.

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Jesus didn't say "I am God" because, in his time, most people (Jews or else), if not all, were made to believe, since the human brain wasn't evolved enough, that the Will/Power that created life and the universe is of one being; God.

For example, I remember a kid asked me, many decades ago, about the maker of the radio set I was listening to. I told him: "Philips". He went on asking: Is Philips male or female? Yes, his fresh mind couldn't imagine (as he does now, being an adult) that a name, as Philips, could denote the owners of a company (forming one entity, Philips) and not just one person.

Therefore, Jesus presented the best image of God only that some of the ancient men could (though hardly) accept... at least based on faith (as a kid believes his loving father based on trust first, not logic).

Anyway, a human being, created for survival only, doesn't need knowing anything about the Will/Power that created him; as it is the case for all other living things. The main role of human survivals is to serve (while taking care of their living body at any cost) the world by creating/living wars, once a while, by which they could progress science rather quickly.

Did I miss something to add? I am afraid I did because it is early doing it Wink

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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21-09-2016, 02:16 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(20-09-2016 06:01 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 05:23 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yeah I tried to justify slavery in the OT...honestly... I couldn't.

The pastor should have switched to the teachings and example of the Christ. The conversation would have been over at that point. Christ gave but two commands, both of which effectively nullify any attempt to justify owning another human life. You cannot follow the command to love your neighbor, brother, enemy and simultaneously own slaves.

Again... in your interpretation. Jesus had no issue with slavery and used it in his parables: "The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows."

That does not match up well with your interpretation of "love thy neighbor". You are cherry-picking again. It is quite possible to follow the command to love your neighbor if you define "neighbor" as fellow free Jew and exclude slaves and non-Jews from consideration. That is a poorer philosophy but has the advantage of being consistent.

Or you could realize that these books were written by people that lived in a barbaric society and have are just their attempt at figuring things out. They are interesting as history but they have no special significance.

Please, would you help me find out where Jesus says the parable you mentioned above. Thank you.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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