Slavery Debate with Pastor
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21-09-2016, 05:46 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(20-09-2016 07:49 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 06:01 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Again... in your interpretation. Jesus had no issue with slavery and used it in his parables: "The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows."

That does not match up well with your interpretation of "love thy neighbor". You are cherry-picking again. It is quite possible to follow the command to love your neighbor if you define "neighbor" as fellow free Jew and exclude slaves and non-Jews from consideration. That is a poorer philosophy but has the advantage of being consistent.

Or you could realize that these books were written by people that lived in a barbaric society and have are just their attempt at figuring things out. They are interesting as history but they have no special significance.
The parable is about the servant of God and is a reference to judgement.

The command of Christ was for Jew and gentile alike and equally.

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21-09-2016, 05:56 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 02:59 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 01:10 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  @everybody else.

Kerim and Pops in the same thread, you know what that means:

Judgement day is near! Be prepared for the second coming!

A judgement day has to be based on a certain Law.
But, as you already know, Kerim believes (actually discovered) that any ruling god (hence having a certain Law imposed on humans) has to be a man-made god.

Hope it is clearer now Wink

Kerim

Why do you think that there is any such thing as a judgment day?

What an odd belief. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-09-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 05:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 02:59 AM)KerimF Wrote:  A judgement day has to be based on a certain Law.
But, as you already know, Kerim believes (actually discovered) that any ruling god (hence having a certain Law imposed on humans) has to be a man-made god.

Hope it is clearer now Wink

Kerim

Why do you think that there is any such thing as a judgment day?

What an odd belief. Consider

"My individual earth consciousness is gonna go all over everywhere while Glob tallies my deeds.”

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Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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21-09-2016, 09:22 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(20-09-2016 08:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The Jewish perspective was manipulated somewhere along the line. This is apparent even in the OT as they are openly damned to exceeding torment as a price to pay for the misdirection they caused. The will of GOD is without change, yet different times and people call for different revelation.
The OT teachings about slavery are directly at odds with the NT teachings as you pointed out. Therefore, they can't both be correct and they can't both be "the will of God". So, for your claim to be true that the will of God is without change, it means that God was lying either in OT or NT times. Is that really what you want to say?

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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21-09-2016, 09:38 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 12:58 AM)KerimF Wrote:  Sorry for not being clearer.
My previous post was a direct reply to yours on which you liked proving, by funny expressions, that a man (like you and I) could be smarter than the Will/Power that forced us all to exist in this life. Unless you think it is possible for a man-made robot to be smarter (related to intelligence, hence not being stronger and/or having a better memory as a being) than its maker(s).
Sorry, I don't buy the robot analogy. A two-year-old might be more accurate to fit what you intend. However, if I understand correctly, you are saying that my limited mind can't understand what God's much greater mind does - or at least mine can't very quickly and it would take much time.

However, many things are simple enough to be just plain obvious. For example, if an object is round, it can't also be square. It's one or the other. It cannot be that I think it's round, but God "knows" it's really round AND square. Round and square are mutually exclusive. The same is true for the OT testament slavery teachings vs. the NT teachings that are incompatible with slavery. When you claim that it's only limited minds that prevent seeing something that is actually impossible, you are discarding real truth in favor of what you choose as your "truth".

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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21-09-2016, 11:34 AM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 05:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-09-2016 02:59 AM)KerimF Wrote:  A judgement day has to be based on a certain Law.
But, as you already know, Kerim believes (actually discovered) that any ruling god (hence having a certain Law imposed on humans) has to be a man-made god.

Hope it is clearer now Wink

Kerim

Why do you think that there is any such thing as a judgment day?

What an odd belief. Consider

Sorry, did I say there is a judgment day?
In fact, my reply (to Deesse23) was to remind him that it doesn't exit (actually it cannot) because it needs a certain Heavenly Law to exist too.
he already heard me saying: Only the man-made gods are claimed to have some divine rules to be obeyed by men.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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21-09-2016, 01:29 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 09:38 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Sorry, I don't buy the robot analogy. A two-year-old might be more accurate to fit what you intend. However, if I understand correctly, you are saying that my limited mind can't understand what God's much greater mind does - or at least mine can't very quickly and it would take much time.

However, many things are simple enough to be just plain obvious. For example, if an object is round, it can't also be square. It's one or the other. It cannot be that I think it's round, but God "knows" it's really round AND square. Round and square are mutually exclusive. The same is true for the OT testament slavery teachings vs. the NT teachings that are incompatible with slavery. When you claim that it's only limited minds that prevent seeing something that is actually impossible, you are discarding real truth in favor of what you choose as your "truth".

It seems you forgot what you wrote about a confused God:
Impulse Wrote:I see. So, in other words, God neglected to include "thou shalt not own slaves" in the OT commandments, but he did realize his mistake... perfect god that he is... and included 2 new commands that cover it... although he still didn't explicitly say slavery is wrong... perfect god that he is. Drinking Beverage And, of course, being the all-knowing god that he is, in OT times, he knew he would be doing this in NT times, but still left it out of the 10 commandments anyway... realized his mistake then and CHOSE to leave it out anyway. Dodgy How does this end the conversation again?

So I simply replied:
KerimF Wrote:Do we teach our little kids the notion of infinity for example while their minds find hard counting to one thousand only?
Judaism was addressed to an ancient people (the kids of humanity).
It is like we make rules for our kids (as the 10 commandments) to follow in order to help them have a healthy body and mind when adults. Then, they will be free to do whatever they like, including the following of certain rules... as of their system.

It wasn't about being round and/or square... it is about how your parents at home and your teachers at school did, when you were a kid, to prepare you, step by step, to become the person of knowledge you are now.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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21-09-2016, 02:10 PM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2016 02:17 PM by KerimF.)
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 09:22 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 08:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The Jewish perspective was manipulated somewhere along the line. This is apparent even in the OT as they are openly damned to exceeding torment as a price to pay for the misdirection they caused. The will of GOD is without change, yet different times and people call for different revelation.
The OT teachings about slavery are directly at odds with the NT teachings as you pointed out. Therefore, they can't both be correct and they can't both be "the will of God". So, for your claim to be true that the will of God is without change, it means that God was lying either in OT or NT times. Is that really what you want to say?

Even in science, it is natural to start with incomplete, if not wrong, ideas to teach the new comers into life (as our kids). Then, step by step, these ideas are updated till they reach their final known version.

For example, if you remember well, the first definition of parallelism you heard of, when you were a little kid, is:
"Two straights are said parallel if they don't intersect".
This definition is totally wrong. Should we call your teachers ignorant or liars?

But when your mind started perceiving what we may call '3D geometry', you knew that two straight lines, not on the same plane, don't intersect and are not parallel. So it was time to update the previous wrong definition as:
"Two straights are said parallel if they don't intersect and are on the same plane".

Finally, if you had the chance to study the perspective geometry, the previous definition had to be updated once again as (in order to draw properly the perspective images):
"Two straights are said parallel if they intersect at infinity"

As you see, ALL three definitions, mentioned above, DO exist in teaching science while one of them is wrong and another is incomplete.

Does this mean that science contradicts itself?

Finally, truth be said, it is hard for many people to think rationally always.
Why they can't do it always... this should take us to another thread Wink

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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21-09-2016, 02:12 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(20-09-2016 08:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The will of GOD is without change, yet different times and people call for different revelation.

If so, why don't we get a new, updated bible every hundred years or so? You know, because the times and people have changed, and therefore require a different revelation?

In other words, if the ancient revelations weren't also meant for us, then where are our revelations?
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21-09-2016, 02:39 PM
RE: Slavery Debate with Pastor
(21-09-2016 02:12 PM)bigjay Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 08:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The will of GOD is without change, yet different times and people call for different revelation.

If so, why don't we get a new, updated bible every hundred years or so? You know, because the times and people have changed, and therefore require a different revelation?

In other words, if the ancient revelations weren't also meant for us, then where are our revelations?

The crucial question I had to find out its logical answer when I was a teen (about 50 years ago) is:
What is exactly the purpose for which I was forced to join this life? Wink

When I discovered this purpose, it didn't change since then Big Grin

By the way, looking for the "Will of God" (which may be equivalent to the purpose of one's life) on books, said/claimed being holy or not, will end up to more unanswered questions and confusion.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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