Slavery Is An Economic Category Of Capitalism
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22-03-2017, 08:48 AM
RE: Slavery Is An Economic Category Of Capitalism
(22-03-2017 08:22 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 08:02 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  How is actually changing or even dismantling the economic and political sytems in any way going to ensure parity for such individuals?

The system, both political as well as economical is in dire need of change. Just not in the way, Fred imagines. For starters, represetatives representing the people and not the money men would go a long way towards creating a more just environment. In short democracy and not bribocracy.

I agree. It is complicated by the fact that apathy goes hand in hand with lack of representation. Even if there was zero corruption there would still be many who would feel disenfranchised even though they fail to realize some of it is their own doing. The money men (also citizens) make their voices heard, but the apathetic hope that someone can read their minds. For a Democracy to work for all, all must participate and not just on election day (and even then the US turnout is disgracefully low).

How many of us can say they have written or called their representatives to express their views? I do so but rarely. You could say I’m part of the problem.

There are many other things that I think need to be changed such as gerrymandering voting districts and changing term periods just off the top of my head.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-03-2017, 08:59 AM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2017 09:02 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: Slavery Is An Economic Category Of Capitalism
(22-03-2017 08:48 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 08:22 AM)abaris Wrote:  The system, both political as well as economical is in dire need of change. Just not in the way, Fred imagines. For starters, represetatives representing the people and not the money men would go a long way towards creating a more just environment. In short democracy and not bribocracy.

I agree. It is complicated by the fact that apathy goes hand in hand with lack of representation. Even if there was zero corruption there would still be many who would feel disenfranchised even though they fail to realize some of it is their own doing. The money men (also citizens) make their voices heard, but the apathetic hope that someone can read their minds. For a Democracy to work for all, all must participate and not just on election day (and even then the US turnout is disgracefully low).

How many of us can say they have written or called their representatives to express their views? I do so but rarely. You could say I’m part of the problem.

There are many other things that I think need to be changed such as gerrymandering voting districts and changing term periods just off the top of my head.
The People of the US have effectively ZERO influence on most the important political economic decisions that effect our lives. We are in a capitalist corporate state oligarchy with the facade of representative democracy. If they are going to go to war, they will go to war, if they are going to move your factory to Viet Nam they will do that, if they are going to tax your more and cut services, they will do that. Occasionally they will throw us a small bone to chew on and shut us up for awhile if we raise too much hell in the streets.
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22-03-2017, 09:03 AM
RE: Slavery Is An Economic Category Of Capitalism
(22-03-2017 08:31 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(21-03-2017 06:26 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  I am not at all familiar with Nyerere. Was he a Marxist soc-comm, supposedly, or capitalist?

Communist, marxist or African socialist. Ran a resource rich peaceful country overflowing with African heritage.

A favorable description of the man that glosses over his failures can be found here https://www.marxists.org/subject/africa/...graphy.htm
Thanks, I will put it on my list. Wink
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22-03-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: Slavery Is An Economic Category Of Capitalism
(22-03-2017 08:37 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  The replacement system, that I prefer, is based on Marxism and, particularly Maoism, as, IMO and others' opinion, the Maoists took, in practice, soc-comm the furthest to date. The USSR did amazing things as well, under Lenin and also Stalin, but Stalin kind of became more a "democratic socialist" and then, over time, the Red Mafia and bourgeois class became rather corrupt, etc etc.

Do you count GULags, Holodomor, Great Terror and collectivization as amazing things that USSR did?

Quick skimming through the books give us enough info to show how deluded our troll really is when he speaks about amazing things that Lenin and Stalin did:

- From autumn of 1917 to beginning of 1922 about 4 million of people died thanks to war and epidemics and 5 million more from hunger [Richard Pipes, Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime, p.511 of Polish 2013 edition]
- Isolating people in concentration camps also wasn't easy task judging by their number - 107 were opened till the end of 1920 [Anne Applebaum, Gulag: A History, p. 40 of Polish 2011 edition]
- Great Famine resulted in death of 5 to 7 million of people [Oleg Khlevniuk, Stalin: New Biography of a Dictator, sub-chapter Famine in chapter 3 His Revolution, English epub 2015 edition]
- Number of people executed in Great Terror - 681 692 (years 1937-1938) [Timothy Snyder, Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin, p. 129 of Polish 2015 edition]

Troll undoubtedly will find a reason to excuse this crimes but I didn't looked for numbers to his benefit.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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22-03-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: Slavery Is An Economic Category Of Capitalism
(22-03-2017 08:59 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  The People of the US have effectively ZERO influence on most the important political economic decisions that effect our lives. We are in a capitalist corporate state oligarchy with the facade of representative democracy. If they are going to go to war, they will go to war, if they are going to move your factory to Viet Nam they will do that, if they are going to tax your more and cut services, they will do that. Occasionally they will throw us a small bone to chew on and shut us up for awhile if we raise too much hell in the streets.

And yet slowly but surely progressive steps have been taken all along the way with the occasional hiccup here and there.

When citizens organize to have their voices heard change happens. People need to get their hands dirty, take the time out of their busy day on Forums for instance, and be the cause of change. Railing against the machine without focus or a well-thought out plan isn’t productive and never will be.

Their Man is whoever is elected to office that you disagree with, otherwise they are Your Man (and simultaneoulsy Their Man to the others).

Democracy isn’t without its faults, far from it, if you were to read the threads where I rail against income disparity in this country you would realize that we may agree on some things. What I do not agree with is throwing out the baby with the bath water. While democracy isn’t perfect it beats the hell out of whatever is next.

Violent revolution, of which I have lived through twice, left the populace in much worse conditions than before, mostly because the leaders of those revolutions were egotistical magalomaniacs. In very few instances do individuals who come to power by violence relinquish it willingly, benign dictators are not the norm as history shows us. Absolute power corrupts absolutely as the idiom goes.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-03-2017, 10:46 AM
RE: Slavery Is An Economic Category Of Capitalism
(22-03-2017 09:34 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 08:59 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  The People of the US have effectively ZERO influence on most the important political economic decisions that effect our lives. We are in a capitalist corporate state oligarchy with the facade of representative democracy. If they are going to go to war, they will go to war, if they are going to move your factory to Viet Nam they will do that, if they are going to tax your more and cut services, they will do that. Occasionally they will throw us a small bone to chew on and shut us up for awhile if we raise too much hell in the streets.

And yet slowly but surely progressive steps have been taken all along the way with the occasional hiccup here and there.

When citizens organize to have their voices heard change happens. People need to get their hands dirty, take the time out of their busy day on Forums for instance, and be the cause of change. Railing against the machine without focus or a well-thought out plan isn’t productive and never will be.

Their Man is whoever is elected to office that you disagree with, otherwise they are Your Man (and simultaneoulsy Their Man to the others).

Democracy isn’t without its faults, far from it, if you were to read the threads where I rail against income disparity in this country you would realize that we may agree on some things. What I do not agree with is throwing out the baby with the bath water. While democracy isn’t perfect it beats the hell out of whatever is next.

Violent revolution, of which I have lived through twice, left the populace in much worse conditions than before, mostly because the leaders of those revolutions were egotistical magalomaniacs. In very few instances do individuals who come to power by violence relinquish it willingly, benign dictators are not the norm as history shows us. Absolute power corrupts absolutely as the idiom goes.
To reiterate, we don't have a democracy in the US, it's FAKE.

Well, that's why I am in a Soc-Comm party. But I am not at all interested in capitalist, bourgeois, ruling class politics, just to decide what prick ruler(s), oligarchs we 'want' this time. Socialism replaces capitalism, the working/slave class replaces the bourgeois/owning/ruling class. That is what I am interested in. But yes, you have to be massively well organized with a good program and good leaders, otherwise it just goes to shit.

We're currently living in a Nazi style, political coup d' tat with the Drumpf/Bannon admin.
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