Slavery isn't bad... or something
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22-12-2014, 10:12 AM
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
(22-12-2014 09:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'd be more interested in hearing why it's "bad".

If you were living in a time when slavery was acceptable by society, on what basis would you be able to say it was bad?

Are you talking from a Christian standpoint or a secular one? Are you asking why it's objectively bad or why we say it's bad?


(22-12-2014 09:10 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I "get" what she is saying.

Not that I agree. But, I get it.

Oh, I "get" what she's saying, too. The Bible says things that look bad on the surface, and she's picking one route to soften that blow. So, if she can say that the Bible doesn't condone slavery, but only condones "slavery" and that slavery is bad but "slavery" isn't, then it makes it easier to swallow. It's just, she picked a really odd way to go about it, and her jumping around from topic to topic wasn't making her point any more cognizant.
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22-12-2014, 10:30 AM
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
Sounds more like an argument of semantics. Hard to conclude a debate when those taking part are arguing different points using the same word.

'Murican Canadian
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22-12-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
(22-12-2014 10:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  If I don't want to be a slave, who the fuck are you to enslave me?

If we assume you were slave making this protest to his slave owner, the answer would be, the answer would be, "Someone who has the power to enslave you, and use you for my intended purposes."


Quote: Slavery from my *own* pov is bad since you're taking away someone's freedom to determine their own life.

But why is taking away someone's freedom "bad"?

Why is it wrong for me to take your freedom away? Because I wouldn't desire my freedom to be taken away? But why would something that I not desire for myself, be a directive for me not desire this for someone else?
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22-12-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
(22-12-2014 10:35 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-12-2014 10:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  If I don't want to be a slave, who the fuck are you to enslave me?

If we assume you were slave making this protest to his slave owner, the answer would be, the answer would be, "Someone who has the power to enslave you, and use you for my intended purposes."


Quote: Slavery from my *own* pov is bad since you're taking away someone's freedom to determine their own life.

But why is taking away someone's freedom "bad"?

Why is it wrong for me to take your freedom away? Because I wouldn't desire my freedom to be taken away? But why would something that I not desire for myself, be a directive for me not desire this for someone else?

When you can tell me why the angles of a triangle sum to 180 degrees I will answer your question.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-12-2014, 02:28 PM
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
(22-12-2014 07:15 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  her stance is that slavery isn't bad, but keeping slaves against their will and treating them poorly is what's bad.

By definition, slaves are kept against their will.

(22-12-2014 07:15 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Also, working for money is a form of slavery, or something, so we still do that too, or whatever.

Again, by definition, slaves are not paid.

I won't go into the rest of this balderdash.

Where is this forum you speak of?

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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22-12-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
(22-12-2014 02:28 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Where is this forum you speak of?

It's not a forum. It's a closed member-group on Facebook. You have to request to join.
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22-12-2014, 03:10 PM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2014 06:58 PM by CleverUsername.)
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
"Oh, I'm okay with murdering people so long as no one dies."

"Torture is perfectly okay if the people doing it don't cause anyone discomfort."

"There's nothing wrong with stealing, just get the person's permission before you take their things."

"Being painfully stupid and putting your idiocy on display on the internet is fine, so long as you don't say moronic crud online."


And yes, I'm sure the Bible is full of instructions on how to do things God never expected people to do. Isn't that what all books, especially ones filled with instructions, do? Why, just the other day, I was reading a guide on how to hook up my TV, and it included detailed instructions on how to dissect a live cat. It's just the way things are done.


[Image: Headdesk_Emo_funnys-s449x337-111462-475.jpg]

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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23-12-2014, 07:49 AM
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
(22-12-2014 03:10 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  "Oh, I'm okay with murdering people so long as no one dies."

"Torture is perfectly okay if the people doing it don't cause anyone discomfort."

"There's nothing wrong with stealing, just get the person's permission before you take their things."

"Being painfully stupid and putting your idiocy on display on the internet is fine, so long as you don't say moronic crud online."


And yes, I'm sure the Bible is full of instructions on how to do things God never expected people to do. Isn't that what all books, especially ones filled with instructions, do? Why, just the other day, I was reading a guide on how to hook up my TV, and it included detailed instructions on how to dissect a live cat. It's just the way things are done.

Big Grin

Perfectly put. Yeah, that whole thing was an exercise in insanity. One of the people arguing with her put up a picture of judges rating her mental gymnastics.
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23-12-2014, 08:30 AM
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
(22-12-2014 07:15 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, I joined a Christian apologetics group on Facebook a few weeks ago, because I'm some sort of masochist, or something. It can be fun at times. There are a few people there who are interesting to talk to. There are no shortage of trolls there (although the Christian trolls far outweigh the atheist trolls). I've learned to just keep scrolling when I see posts where the entirety is "Atheists: is slavery wrong?".

Anyway, there was a post a couple days ago where a Christian was talking about slavery and how it was mentioned in the OT. I totally expected some Christians to come and defend it in one way or another, but I was actually surprised when one of the mods showed up and said that slavery actually isn't bad. Now, to put that in a slightly less creepy context, her stance is that slavery isn't bad, but keeping slaves against their will and treating them poorly is what's bad. Also, working for money is a form of slavery, or something, so we still do that too, or whatever.

A few people piled on and laid into her (I think one was even Christian). I asked her a few questions to get her to qualify her stance a bit more, but I wasn't in any way interested in getting into a morality debate with her. I learned a bit about her by reading her replies. She will jump around from point to point, frequently forgetting the context of the discussion. Sadly, she's a mod, and I wonder how much this impacts her ability to moderate a debate. So, here are some general defenses of slavery in the Bible, according to her:
  • Slavery isn't bad. Mistreatment of slaves and keeping them against their will is bad.
  • Working for money when you'd rather not is a form of slavery.
  • That was a different culture, and it worked for them. Who are we to say it's bad? (Note: this comment was made within 24 hours of her complaining about the nature of subjective morality in another post.)
  • There are passages in the OT talking about how slaves could stay with the family afterward, and many chose to.
  • Slavery was a way to pay off debts, and was more like indentured servitude.
  • There's no evidence that any of the slaves kept by the Hebrews were kept against their will.
  • Just because the OT has rules about how and when to beat your slaves doesn't mean that it ever actually happened.
  • She would be fine with slavery being brought back, so long as the slaves weren't kept against their will and were treated well.

On a related note, I've noticed many of the Christians have been ramping up their rhetoric in terms of what they post to bait and attack atheists. We'll have to see how long I just scroll past the troll posts and when I ultimately decide I don't like the time I spend there. They may end up "winning" this on, in so much that they drive off any dissenting points of view from their echo chamber. Time will tell whether or not they remember to use their indoor voices when not in their group. Personally, I love it when a fundie forgets they're not in their echo chamber and publicly says something that 85% of society finds stupidly offensive and repugnant. This is half of how fundamentalism dies out.

What sort of bastardised reasoning is this?
  • Slavery isn't bad. Mistreatment of slaves and keeping them against their will is bad.
  • Working for money when you'd rather not is a form of slavery.
Does this person even know what slavery is?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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23-12-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: Slavery isn't bad... or something
If I had a buck for every time a bible literalist told me that the bible didn't really mean slavery when it says slavery I'd be a rich man. I have concluded there's literally no such thing as a bible literalist.
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