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29-10-2011, 04:50 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2011 04:58 PM by NotSoVacuous.)
RE: Smoking
I have never been told any guarantees that smoking will do X. I have been told that it is bad for you and I think it goes without saying that it is. As far as health concerns go, well that is one thing, but lets look at the bigger picture. My parents have been smoking for roughly 25 years. My Dad growing up smoked about a pack and a half a day while my mom smoked roughly 1 pack. If I do a rough estimate of cost by merging how cheap cigarettes were in the 90s to how expensive they are today I might say it is fair to cost them at 2$ a pack on my parent's timeline.

Dad's Cost 2$*1.5*365*25 = 27,375
Mom's Cost 2$*1*365*25 = 18,250
Combined total = 45,625

And with a savings account starting 3 years in depositing all the money they would have spent on cigarettes they would be sitting pretty at 66,000$ at 3% 22 years later. If I wanted to calculate where that would be at my Dad's age of 58 just 38 years later of saving instead of smoking he would have 126,000$

Now, as I said health aside my parents would have 126,000$ to pay off any debt,(Mortgage, car, CC, etc...) Or sit on it and retire with another 401k or SS.

I don't know about you but cancer doesn't scare me, it's being in my parent's position and being 45 and owning NOTHING that scares the shit out of me. Cigarettes in my honest opinion is a tax on the stupid.

Holy shit, after reading a few more post it's like most of you basically support this shit. I will wait for a response to this, give me a list of what it's good for.

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29-10-2011, 04:55 PM
RE: Smoking
(21-10-2011 09:21 AM)DaylightDusk Wrote:  All of these Anti-Smoking people dont realize that these people owning the big companies like Newport are just trying to make a living. Theyre not doing it to kill people, they're doing it to support family members etc....

Problem is, with this argument you can justify anything. You're producing a product that harms people or even kills them? "Hey, I'm just trying to support my family. I'm not trying to hurt anybody."

In general terms, if your job involves doing something or producing something that creates more harm than good, ethically speaking you have two choices: (1) find a way to get rid of the harm, or (2) find another way to make a living.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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29-10-2011, 04:56 PM
RE: Smoking
(21-10-2011 09:21 AM)DaylightDusk Wrote:  Yeah that is very likely to happen, my grandmother is like 67 and she smokes like 3 packs a day and only coughs a little bit. Smoking will cause cancer in time (40-50 years in the use), but it's not as bad as people make it look. All of these Anti-Smoking people dont realize that these people owning the big companies like Newport are just trying to make a living. Theyre not doing it to kill people, they're doing it to support family members etc....

Yes and drug dealers are just trying to get by, they aren't trying to starve a Mom's children. They are just taking the "food" money from her in exchange for drugs to pay the drug dealers rent.

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29-10-2011, 05:00 PM
RE: Smoking
(29-10-2011 04:50 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  I don't know about you but cancer doesn't scare me . . .

I suspect that's because you've never experienced what it's like to be close to someone who's dying a horrible death from cancer.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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29-10-2011, 05:09 PM
RE: Smoking
(29-10-2011 04:50 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  I have never been told any guarantees that smoking will do X. I have been told that it is bad for you and I think it goes without saying that it is. As far as health concerns go, well that is one thing, but lets look at the bigger picture. My parents have been smoking for roughly 25 years. My Dad growing up smoked about a pack and a half a day while my mom smoked roughly 1 pack. If I do a rough estimate of cost by merging how cheap cigarettes were in the 90s to how expensive they are today I might say it is fair to cost them at 2$ a pack on my parent's timeline.

Dad's Cost 2$*1.5*365*25 = 27,375
Mom's Cost 2$*1*365*25 = 18,250
Combined total = 45,625

And with a savings account starting 3 years in depositing all the money they would have spent on cigarettes they would be sitting pretty at 66,000$ at 3% 22 years later. If I wanted to calculate where that would be at my Dad's age of 58 just 38 years later of saving instead of smoking he would have 126,000$

Now, as I said health aside my parents would have 126,000$ to pay off any debt,(Mortgage, car, CC, etc...) Or sit on it and retire with another 401k or SS.

I don't know about you but cancer doesn't scare me, it's being in my parent's position and being 45 and owning NOTHING that scares the shit out of me. Cigarettes in my honest opinion is a tax on the stupid.

Holy shit, after reading a few more post it's like most of you basically support this shit. I will wait for a response to this, give me a list of what it's good for.

To be honest the financial side doesn't bother me. How many non-smokers out there actually put aside the money they would have spent if they smoked? I've never met any. It's just money that gets frittered away on some other luxury if not cigarettes.

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29-10-2011, 05:10 PM
RE: Smoking
(29-10-2011 05:00 PM)cufflink Wrote:  
(29-10-2011 04:50 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  I don't know about you but cancer doesn't scare me . . .

I suspect that's because you've never experienced what it's like to be close to someone who's dying a horrible death from cancer.

Chemo causes what you witness, not the cancer. Chemo is also optional.

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29-10-2011, 05:32 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2011 05:40 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Smoking
(29-10-2011 05:10 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  
(29-10-2011 05:00 PM)cufflink Wrote:  
(29-10-2011 04:50 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  I don't know about you but cancer doesn't scare me . . .

I suspect that's because you've never experienced what it's like to be close to someone who's dying a horrible death from cancer.

Chemo causes what you witness, not the cancer. Chemo is also optional.

The hell you say. Dying from cancer without chemo is less grisly than with chemo? I'm with cufflink here. You ain't seen it. Scared me so shitless I put together my own "go" bag. I will not go through that on my way out.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-10-2011, 06:06 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2011 06:23 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Smoking
(29-10-2011 04:50 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  ...being 45 and owning NOTHING that scares the shit out of me.

You rang? Big Grin

Well, I'm 43... my material wealth is the portrait of Gwyneth Paltrow on my left forearm... much better than the S on the chest in the real world. Big Grin

Owning nothing is liberty to do anything, anywhere, anytime. My feet work.. Everything else tends to follow along...

I'm not gonna give you some happy-hippie bullshit, I'm gonna tell you that you are looking at it the wrong way. There's only one equation that matters for the average joe when it comes to the dark labyrinth of economics: T = M.

Time equals money. I'm sure you did not intend malice, but what you did was reduce the vibrant lifespans of two people into scraps of worthless paper, only to scoff in horror. That don't sound too good, does it?

Life is evolution - if you're an animal, it ain't pretty. If your calculations lead to horror, you're thinking like an animal. To be human is to calculate with love and joy. Morality is zero-state and yours to define. I'm an atheist that the Bible thumpers avoid; which is to say I love, live in joy, and condemn none (excepting an occasional rant or two Big Grin)

If you wanna live you life building a monument to your death, that is your prerogative. From my experience, I have yet to encounter one engaged in such construction who is "alive" in the sense of "life is joy." That is all.Wink
(29-10-2011 05:32 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The hell you say. Dying from cancer without chemo is less grisly than with chemo? I'm with cufflink here. You ain't seen it. Scared me so shitless I put together my own "go" bag. I will not go through that on my way out.

My experience with that kinda horror show is being on the table for balloon angioplasty 'cuz I was dying... that's the official story, anyway. I remember what was really going on. I was looking at my Gwynnies, and laughing; cuz it was fun - poor technicians were all stressed. They're like, will you lay the fuck down and stop making jokes? Big Grin

This is a common error. Remember evolution? Mind of another in mind? People look at someone "dying a horrible death;" they are simulating that mind - but the truth remains, it is just a simulation. I'll give you an example:

They catch me and torture me for two weeks, turning it into like action slasher flick where I am reduced to a blubbering monkey and executed without dignity. Now if you see this flick, and feel bad for me for a single instant...

I will come back and kick yer ass! Cool

(It may sound like Buddhist mumbo-jumbo, but living in the now is the only way to fly this aircraft we call life.)

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29-10-2011, 06:37 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2011 06:57 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Smoking
(29-10-2011 06:06 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  To be human is to calculate with love and joy.

That parametrization is nowhere near as simple as you would like. ... But we will find it. And once we find it, we sure as shit know how to maximize it. Wink
(29-10-2011 06:06 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  My experience with that kinda horror show is being on the table for balloon angioplasty 'cuz I was dying...

That's a different horrow show. I've seen that one too. Laid in a hospital bed for 14 hours with a burst appendix. There is pain and then there is dying. ... Demerol don't do shit when you're dying.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-10-2011, 07:31 PM
RE: Smoking
(29-10-2011 06:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That's a different horrow show. I've seen that one too. Laid in a hospital bed for 14 hours with a burst appendix. There is pain and then there is dying. ... Demerol don't do shit when you're dying.

Nether does intravenous morphine. Tongue

That dang Gwynnies, however... oh! I was singing the tetranumericon - 7-3-1-20 - but we're not supposta encourage pimping that kinda religious nonsense... shh! Don't tell nobody... Big Grin

You may realize that I ain't telling you that you don't know nothing. i'm just sharing my - ahh, individual perspective - and in the real world, I gotta keep my "anti-death Rottweiler" on a short leash... There's been more than a few encounters who find my lack of fear/respect for death to be "inhuman."

As a creature of love, I hate seeing people stress over it. That is all... I try not to get too lippy. Big Grin

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