Snowden Situation
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-07-2013, 09:59 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:51 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 09:39 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  They're protesting because the liberals will protest anything and everything.
Being the loudest doesn't mean you are the consensus. Also, since when did "look, they're doing it" become an argument lol? You know you're on an atheist forum right?

It does have a valid reason. Where else are the FBI gonna get fapping material from? duh.

"ohh yes, that's it, read that news article ip address 123.23.23.1, fuck yeah right there, that's the spot!"


Lol.
I just wanna pinch your checks right now.


I don't need too, others have done that.

But to repeat what they said, it was legal and what Snowden did was illegal.
He could have gone through legal procedures to blow the whistle, but he didn't, so tough biscuits to him.


Lol.
So adorable.

You're just babbling and it's not even worth trying to refute your arguments because it's obvious that you don't value individual freedoms, rights, or privacy. You disregard news articles that contradict your argument and use my age as a reason my argument is invalid. Thanks for the posts, but I will not respond to nonsense.

Oooooohhhhhh yes. Because the news agencies are really articles of accuracy. Thumbsup

Look, brother. I agree that bringing up age is bullshit, I however do not agree with you that NSA has committed an ILLEGAL act.

Protip: Don't assume the other's position. You have no idea if he does or doesn't value freedom. He isn't arguing that what the NSA did was good. He was arguing that what the NSA did was legal.

Legal =/= Good

Illegal =/= Bad.

They are not the same.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Atothetheist's post
27-07-2013, 10:01 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:50 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 09:45 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  Well if I'm an ignorant little kid with too big of a mouth, you're an old man with too big of a mouth that doesn't give a shit about freedom or privacy. I know which one I'd rather be. Laughat Say I'm too young all you want, the NSA spying is illegal.

No, it isn't illegal.

We keep on telling you that it isn't, but you just won't listen.

Nobody is saying that what the NSA is/has been doing is morally right, but everyone, save for you, is saying that it is legal.

Legalities and moralities are more different than just a few different letters.


Let me ask you a question: Do you believe that the constitution, when written, was the ideal document?

That question has no relevance at all. The constitution is a living document, meaning it can be changed. The Bill of Rights protects our right to privacy, a trial, and the right to defense when concerning legal matters. That is all I am trying to say. I couldn't care less if acts like that Patriot Act is legal now, I am saying that it shouldn't be, and will probably be found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, just like the courts before it. Just because it is considered legal now does not make it any less wrong or immoral. Therefore, it would make no difference if the acts were legal now, they would be found to be wrong and unjust the moment they are found unconstitutional. Why is that so controversial?

[Image: g-HitchensThinkSelf.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-07-2013, 10:02 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
Quote:Look, brother. I agree that bringing up age is bullshit

Because you're young and naive.
Just wait till you get older Stevo.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-07-2013, 10:03 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:59 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 09:51 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  You're just babbling and it's not even worth trying to refute your arguments because it's obvious that you don't value individual freedoms, rights, or privacy. You disregard news articles that contradict your argument and use my age as a reason my argument is invalid. Thanks for the posts, but I will not respond to nonsense.

Oooooohhhhhh yes. Because the news agencies are really articles of accuracy. Thumbsup

Look, brother. I agree that bringing up age is bullshit, I however do not agree with you that NSA has committed an ILLEGAL act.

Protip: Don't assume the other's position. You have no idea if he does or doesn't value freedom. He isn't arguing that what the NSA did was good. He was arguing that what the NSA did was legal.

Legal =/= Good

Illegal =/= Bad.

They are not the same.

I know what you are arguing and think that it is ridiculous and a simplistic way of looking at it.

[Image: g-HitchensThinkSelf.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-07-2013, 10:04 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:40 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 09:34 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  You're right it was. But it's easy when you're young to think you'll never compromise anything. Until you are responsible for soemthing more important than yourself.

I shouldn't have ever told anyone my age, now some of you are using the age as an indicator of my naivety and foolishness. This is disappointing.

Mom is right, I didn't understand until I started working and bought a car and house and had a kid... Decisions are harder and consequences most wide spread and troubling the more you know and the more you have to loose.

...But most 'youts' aren't even concerned with the political world, to most politics is about getting a C in a social studies class....So some commendations are actually due and I'm glad someone cares because almost every adult I know is basically just along for the ride.

You are only getting flack because Atheists are ****ing sticklers when it comes to law. It is technically legal, just like George Zimmerman and OJ Simpson are technically not guilty. Just like pot smoking is illegal... Just because something is law doesn't make it right or just or good but thats how it is. It is now a matter of changing the law. That's all they want you to admit man. That it is technically legal...They are trying to make you fight the debate on the grounds of morality instead, and they are hung up on because they are right.

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-07-2013, 10:08 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 10:03 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 09:59 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Oooooohhhhhh yes. Because the news agencies are really articles of accuracy. Thumbsup

Look, brother. I agree that bringing up age is bullshit, I however do not agree with you that NSA has committed an ILLEGAL act.

Protip: Don't assume the other's position. You have no idea if he does or doesn't value freedom. He isn't arguing that what the NSA did was good. He was arguing that what the NSA did was legal.

Legal =/= Good

Illegal =/= Bad.

They are not the same.

I know what you are arguing and think that it is ridiculous and a simplistic way of looking at it.

And I know what you're arguing and it's fucking wrong. Drinking Beverage

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Atothetheist's post
27-07-2013, 10:11 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
Okay guys, the NSA actions are legal....for now. The fact that they are is fucking crazy in my mind, and until today I would've NEVER guessed that someone would support a government agency spying on its citizens without a need for a good reason through a secretly made court that almost never denies warrants. The National Security Letters that demand mandatory handover of all personal information from private companies without the needed knowledge of the victim of the invasion is also appalling to me. Maybe I am naive for not wanting this to happen but I doubt I will change my view anytime soon.

[Image: g-HitchensThinkSelf.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-07-2013, 10:17 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 10:11 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  Okay guys, the NSA actions are legal....for now. The fact that they are is fucking crazy in my mind, and until today I would've NEVER guessed that someone would support a government agency spying on its citizens without a need for a good reason through a secretly made court that almost never denies warrants. The National Security Letters that demand mandatory handover of all personal information from private companies without the needed knowledge of the victim of the invasion is also appalling to me. Maybe I am naive for not wanting this to happen but I doubt I will change my view anytime soon.

I don't think it's naive to not want this to happen, I just think its naive to expect it to NOT happen.

Fight the good fight, brother, but don't fucking make false claims.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-07-2013, 10:29 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 10:17 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 10:11 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  Okay guys, the NSA actions are legal....for now. The fact that they are is fucking crazy in my mind, and until today I would've NEVER guessed that someone would support a government agency spying on its citizens without a need for a good reason through a secretly made court that almost never denies warrants. The National Security Letters that demand mandatory handover of all personal information from private companies without the needed knowledge of the victim of the invasion is also appalling to me. Maybe I am naive for not wanting this to happen but I doubt I will change my view anytime soon.

I don't think it's naive to not want this to happen, I just think its naive to expect it to NOT happen.

Fight the good fight, brother, but don't fucking make false claims.

Umm... I don't expect this to happen. I don't understand why this is so controversial, when I say the pledge of allegiance "liberty and justice for all" I expect that to happen, since it is backed by the Bill of Rights. Arguing over the technicalities of this bullshit law and whether it is legal or not makes me angry. The only thing that matters is if it is in accordance with the constitution. I don't know about you, but if any law ever goes against the constitution, it is automatically bullshit, there is no waiting for the Supreme Court to tell me so. I will not just give up and say "You know what, I don't expect privacy or justice anymore, we can just let legislature trample the constitution and let the FBI do whatever the fuck it wants." No fucking way.

Quote:but don't fucking make false claims.

The NSA actions are legal based on the bat shit crazy rules the legislation uses. Although this is true, those actions are still bullshit, end of story. Happy?

[Image: g-HitchensThinkSelf.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-07-2013, 10:33 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 10:11 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  Okay guys, the NSA actions are legal....for now. The fact that they are is fucking crazy in my mind, and until today I would've NEVER guessed that someone would support a government agency spying on its citizens without a need for a good reason through a secretly made court that almost never denies warrants. The National Security Letters that demand mandatory handover of all personal information from private companies without the needed knowledge of the victim of the invasion is also appalling to me. Maybe I am naive for not wanting this to happen but I doubt I will change my view anytime soon.

Well now that thats out of the way we can move on to the morality of the spy game and how you would fix it.

Does Prism represent a good or a bad thing? A far more interesting topic than one Edward Snowden. I can see it's usefulness in the current Geopolitical landscape but I can also see how it could be abused (granted not on the scale that you suggest I don't think it's possible for every piece of data to be viewed so it is always limited to keywords and phrases) Really for me the troubling thing is the rubberstamp warrants. Never refusing a warrant makes it pointless to require one. Change this and I'm ok with Prism staying the way it is now.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: