Snowden Situation
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27-07-2013, 08:09 AM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2013 08:16 AM by I and I.)
Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 12:05 AM)Likos02 Wrote:  Listen, Okay? What snowden did was the actions of a Traitor...if there was a way to make sure that ONLY americans would see his information that he leaked, then he'd be a "Hero" I guess...but the fact remains that he allowed highly classified information to become open source to the ENTIRE WORLD. Everyone can see this shit, not just us. He allowed Enemies of the United States to obtain this information. Bottom line, thats treason or at the very least, criminal negligence. Facts are facts, and Law is Law.

Back up your claim and give one example of classified info that he gave other countries?

Do you really think that China didn't know that they were spied on? How old are you? Heard of the Cold War?
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27-07-2013, 10:51 AM
RE: Snowden Situation
Quote:Where did I claim I support the NSA? However what they are doing is legal right now (borderline unconstitutional but thats for a court to decide) Everything else you posted is fluff. Your Hero's actions made the world a more dangerous place and resulted in exactly 0 change. He went about this the wrong way and made himself the story that is why I dislike him.

Had he instead attempted to do this the correct way and then if the system failed (which it might have we will never know now) had leaked to the press anonymously then he has my respect but this dog and pony show of his was just a giant ego trip. Snowden is the worst kind of activist, the one that puts himself in front of the movement and sets the movement back because of it, think Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton. I'll be honest I don't care what condition he is living in right now because he made his bed now he gets to lay in it. Snowden is all flash no substance and a criminal to boot so no he is not a hero in any sense of the word.

Quote:He exposed nothing and, to show for it, what has been done? Nothing. That is the point.

I just explained to you that it is obviously and unconditionally illegal and there is not arguing against that. I don't know about you but I would say an informed public is a huge change. You saying this was just an ego trip is so stupid that I can't really rap my head around how you could jump over the evidence of secretly initialized fascism in this country and go straight to his supposed ego. Snowden didn't set anything back, he continued the work done by Assange. He never asked for the press to cover his journey to freedom but that's just how it happened and the fact that you want to focus on that shows how you don't understand freedom or privacy.

Your witch hunt mentality regarding Snowden obviously shows that you are in the business of protecting illegal government actions and condemning the innocent whistle-blower that tried to protect your freedom. If you want to live in a place where the government can spy on us and look into all our business, you're going to have to move somewhere else because that isn't freedom or democracy it's fascism and it will not be tolerated here. If you have given up on the idea of 100% privacy for all citizens that's your problem but thanks to "traitors" like Assange and Snowden, we have a chance to protect that freedom we love so much. Snowden is a hero to the people that want freedom and privacy for ALL citizens while people like you apparently want a secret style of fascism where everyone and anyone can be spied on. Ridiculous Drinking Beverage

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27-07-2013, 12:27 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
I like that he drew public attention to this issue, I do consider it unconstitutional, but what do I know.

I think he should have found a better way to do this...

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27-07-2013, 12:31 PM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2013 12:35 PM by Revenant77x.)
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 10:51 AM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
Quote:Where did I claim I support the NSA? However what they are doing is legal right now (borderline unconstitutional but thats for a court to decide) Everything else you posted is fluff. Your Hero's actions made the world a more dangerous place and resulted in exactly 0 change. He went about this the wrong way and made himself the story that is why I dislike him.

Had he instead attempted to do this the correct way and then if the system failed (which it might have we will never know now) had leaked to the press anonymously then he has my respect but this dog and pony show of his was just a giant ego trip. Snowden is the worst kind of activist, the one that puts himself in front of the movement and sets the movement back because of it, think Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton. I'll be honest I don't care what condition he is living in right now because he made his bed now he gets to lay in it. Snowden is all flash no substance and a criminal to boot so no he is not a hero in any sense of the word.

Quote:He exposed nothing and, to show for it, what has been done? Nothing. That is the point.

I just explained to you that it is obviously and unconditionally illegal and there is not arguing against that. I don't know about you but I would say an informed public is a huge change. You saying this was just an ego trip is so stupid that I can't really rap my head around how you could jump over the evidence of secretly initialized fascism in this country and go straight to his supposed ego. Snowden didn't set anything back, he continued the work done by Assange. He never asked for the press to cover his journey to freedom but that's just how it happened and the fact that you want to focus on that shows how you don't understand freedom or privacy.

Your witch hunt mentality regarding Snowden obviously shows that you are in the business of protecting illegal government actions and condemning the innocent whistle-blower that tried to protect your freedom. If you want to live in a place where the government can spy on us and look into all our business, you're going to have to move somewhere else because that isn't freedom or democracy it's fascism and it will not be tolerated here. If you have given up on the idea of 100% privacy for all citizens that's your problem but thanks to "traitors" like Assange and Snowden, we have a chance to protect that freedom we love so much. Snowden is a hero to the people that want freedom and privacy for ALL citizens while people like you apparently want a secret style of fascism where everyone and anyone can be spied on. Ridiculous Drinking Beverage

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(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-07-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
The terrorists have truly won if we are so terrified we are willing to give up our rights to maintain our protective cocoon. They have tricked us into surrendering our freedom.
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27-07-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 12:27 PM)Dom Wrote:  I like that he drew public attention to this issue, I do consider it unconstitutional, but what do I know.

I think he should have found a better way to do this...

Dom, he didn't draw attention to the issue. He drew attention to himself.

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27-07-2013, 12:40 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 12:38 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 12:27 PM)Dom Wrote:  I like that he drew public attention to this issue, I do consider it unconstitutional, but what do I know.

I think he should have found a better way to do this...

Dom, he didn't draw attention to the issue. He drew attention to himself.

The chicken or the egg...

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27-07-2013, 12:43 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 12:40 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 12:38 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Dom, he didn't draw attention to the issue. He drew attention to himself.

The chicken or the egg...

Drawing attention to himself solved nothing. He should have drawn attention to the issue.

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27-07-2013, 01:10 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
The media has chosen, for whatever reason, to make the news about the man and not the issue....probably because the news has been reduced to cheap celebrity entertainment rather than real journalism to make a buck and please the system. Dude was a freaking contractor and he had access to this shit, should send alarm bells off. Demonize him all you want the system is broken.

...It's not like he was full of shit either, 4 other people corroborated his evidence.

...There is a former fucking president pressing the issue!

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27-07-2013, 01:50 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
Yes, what he did is illegal, and it exposed unethical practices and policies. In places, labor strikes are illegal and punished with violence, and the strikers resist unethical practices and policies. Smuggling slaves to freedom used to be illegal. I think you get the idea.

The right-or-wrong of an illegal action has to be judged by the validity of the law, and the intentions and likely effects of the violation.

The laws against exposing certain facts can be debated separately, I suppose. Personally, I find the word "secret" to be synonymous with "lie of omission." I detest secrets in all forms, from an addict's secret substance use, to a perv's secret touching of a kid, to any country's secret abuses, internal or external.

The likely effects of this exposure are widespread public recognition of the activities described in the documents... kind of like the contents of the Pentagon Papers are public. We know they're there, and hearing about them instills a little twinge of distrust toward government. Good. Trusting the government too much leads to the abuses described.

So, what were Snowden's intentions? I don't know for sure, of course. I can see that he has sacrificed a great deal of his comfort and security for very little gain, maybe no gain at all. He did this in order to expose secrets, which I personally support. The secrets he exposed describe unethical actions by a government... hardly a surprise, but knowing specifics can only lead to greater protection from these abuses.

I think "hero" and "traitor" aren't very useful terms. I would describe his actions as more selfless than selfish, in service of a principle I support. And, yes, they were illegal.

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