Snowden Situation
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28-07-2013, 04:07 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(28-07-2013 04:01 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 03:57 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  But now you do realize that altered and taken out of context quote can now be used to justify the government.

Yes the government recognizes the 4th amendment is inconvient. And still it's incumbent upon them to see to the safety of all it's people. If that means fast tracking a warrant so be it. Drinking Beverage

No no no. I would argue that fast tracking a warrant is not in anyway a win for the people. All it does is make the whole business of warrants shaky, turning them from a perfectly logical process into a secret backdoor kind of thing. I also think that under no circumstances can the government limit our privacy under the excuse of, "gotta catch those terrorists!" They are turning the warrants into technicalities which they aren't, they are a huge part of the process.

Except that happened about 150 years ago. You act as if this is a new thing it is not. The electronic dragnet was set up under Nixon and has been routinely upheld in court decisions. As far as legal precedent goes you are arguing that law enforcement has no right to examine your actions or correspondence in a public place, again the internet is for legal purposes a public forum.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-07-2013, 04:09 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(28-07-2013 04:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 04:01 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  No no no. I would argue that fast tracking a warrant is not in anyway a win for the people. All it does is make the whole business of warrants shaky, turning them from a perfectly logical process into a secret backdoor kind of thing. I also think that under no circumstances can the government limit our privacy under the excuse of, "gotta catch those terrorists!" They are turning the warrants into technicalities which they aren't, they are a huge part of the process.

Except that happened about 150 years ago. You act as if this is a new thing it is not. The electronic dragnet was set up under Nixon and has been routinely upheld in court decisions. As far as legal precedent goes you are arguing that law enforcement has no right to examine your actions or correspondence in a public place, again the internet is for legal purposes a public forum.

Who ever thought of the Internet as public? Where did that come from, it makes no sense to me?

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28-07-2013, 04:17 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(28-07-2013 04:09 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 04:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Except that happened about 150 years ago. You act as if this is a new thing it is not. The electronic dragnet was set up under Nixon and has been routinely upheld in court decisions. As far as legal precedent goes you are arguing that law enforcement has no right to examine your actions or correspondence in a public place, again the internet is for legal purposes a public forum.

Who ever thought of the Internet as public? Where did that come from, it makes no sense to me?

It was created originally with public money. The internet grew out of a system of military and collegiate networks that were designed to keep communication open after a nuclear attack.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-07-2013, 04:40 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(28-07-2013 04:17 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 04:09 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  Who ever thought of the Internet as public? Where did that come from, it makes no sense to me?

It was created originally with public money. The internet grew out of a system of military and collegiate networks that were designed to keep communication open after a nuclear attack.

Wow. That seems really far from what it has become, don't you think?

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28-07-2013, 04:42 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
The Internet is exactly like public street.

When you are on a public street, you have no right to privacy.

You do not own the Internet. It's like entering into another person's house to talk to them, you have no right to privacy on someone else's property, or on public property.

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28-07-2013, 04:48 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(28-07-2013 04:42 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The Internet is exactly like public street.

When you are on a public street, you have no right to privacy.

You do not own the Internet. It's like entering into another person's house to talk to them, you have no right to privacy on someone else's property, or on public property.

Not really, there is an expectation of privacy between you and the server and from there both you and the company are bound by the terms of service agreement.

The government is no different than the hacker stealing your credit card during an ecomm transaction.

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28-07-2013, 04:50 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(28-07-2013 04:48 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 04:42 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The Internet is exactly like public street.

When you are on a public street, you have no right to privacy.

You do not own the Internet. It's like entering into another person's house to talk to them, you have no right to privacy on someone else's property, or on public property.

Not really, there is an expectation of privacy between you and the server and from there both you and the company are bound by the terms of service agreement.

The government is no different than the hacker stealing your credit card during an ecomm transaction.

Nope, you play by the ISP's rules if you want to use what they have. There is no expectation to privacy unless you are in charge of it.

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28-07-2013, 04:53 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(28-07-2013 04:42 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The Internet is exactly like public street.

When you are on a public street, you have no right to privacy.

You do not own the Internet. It's like entering into another person's house to talk to them, you have no right to privacy on someone else's property, or on public property.

Why can't we have a right to privacy on the Internet or someone else's property? What is the government so afraid of?

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28-07-2013, 04:59 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(28-07-2013 04:53 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 04:42 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The Internet is exactly like public street.

When you are on a public street, you have no right to privacy.

You do not own the Internet. It's like entering into another person's house to talk to them, you have no right to privacy on someone else's property, or on public property.

Why can't we have a right to privacy on the Internet or someone else's property? What is the government so afraid of?

Because the internet is not a private place it is a public forum (as I keep telling you) someone else's property is actually a bit more complicated as it depends on what it is.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-07-2013, 05:04 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(28-07-2013 04:48 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(28-07-2013 04:42 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The Internet is exactly like public street.

When you are on a public street, you have no right to privacy.

You do not own the Internet. It's like entering into another person's house to talk to them, you have no right to privacy on someone else's property, or on public property.

Not really, there is an expectation of privacy between you and the server and from there both you and the company are bound by the terms of service agreement.

The government is no different than the hacker stealing your credit card during an ecomm transaction.

No it's always limited. Your ISP knows what you do...the question is do they care? They're really too busy enticing people to use their service and keep their service up and running. Not unless law enforcement cares or a government agency cares. It also doesn't mean one of their IT guys can't look up what you're doing. Just like using works computer system to check your Facebook or email. You're giving them access to each and every keystroke.


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