Snowden Situation
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-07-2013, 02:34 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:32 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 02:26 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  Why is it that they are able to give it to the government without a warrant? That seems ridiculous to me that just because you use a service, the provider can do whatever it wants with your information. Maybe that's just me, but I like the feeling that my emails are private.

Well, you have to face the reality that they aren't. When you click the "I agree" terms and conditions, you have essentially allowed them to give that information away. I like the feeling of privacy, but I don't argue that it's their even when it's not.

The Internet is such a big part of everyone's life nowadays, don't you think we should have laws in place to protect the citizens' emails?

[Image: g-HitchensThinkSelf.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2013, 02:40 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:32 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 02:20 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  You use an email service to send them out, and in order to use that service, you have to agree to terms and conditions. For your information, terms and conditions are legally binding, and they dictate what happens with your emails and how "private" they really are. When you use a service, you play by their rules, and most of them give the information to the government, and you, by accepting the terms and conditions and USING the service, have given consent for it to be so.

Well...

You can't waive your legally guaranteed rights through a service agreement. Illegal clauses cannot be upheld, even if the consumer nominally agrees. That's why a contract specifying payment in firstborn children isn't valid, even if both parties sign off on it.

At least not in Canada. Or most of Europe. I dunno about your crazy country Tongue .

Generally the language is vague enough - compliance with all applicable regulations, or having an obligation to disclose some information at government request, or some such - that service providers' asses are thoroughly covered regardless.

Thats basically true but in a legal sense the information belongs to your ISP as far as search and seizure goes.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
29-07-2013, 02:42 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:32 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 02:20 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  You use an email service to send them out, and in order to use that service, you have to agree to terms and conditions. For your information, terms and conditions are legally binding, and they dictate what happens with your emails and how "private" they really are. When you use a service, you play by their rules, and most of them give the information to the government, and you, by accepting the terms and conditions and USING the service, have given consent for it to be so.

Well...

You can't waive your legally guaranteed rights through a service agreement. Illegal clauses cannot be upheld, even if the consumer nominally agrees. That's why a contract specifying payment in firstborn children isn't valid, even if both parties sign off on it.

At least not in Canada. Or most of Europe. I dunno about your crazy country Tongue .

Generally the language is vague enough - compliance with all applicable regulations, or having an obligation to disclose some information at government request, or some such - that service providers' asses are thoroughly covered regardless.

Oh, come on. Newborns are traded on the Chicago exchange every day. There is a thriving baby bellies futures market. Big Grin

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
29-07-2013, 02:42 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:34 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 02:32 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Well, you have to face the reality that they aren't. When you click the "I agree" terms and conditions, you have essentially allowed them to give that information away. I like the feeling of privacy, but I don't argue that it's their even when it's not.

The Internet is such a big part of everyone's life nowadays, don't you think we should have laws in place to protect the citizens' emails?

When you do anything on the net your info is most likely passing through servers in several jurisdictions (local, national and internatioanl). You're unlikely to get any further "privacy" for your email.

I do not expect any privacy on line, like A2's comment about being in public, there is no privacy in public. The Internet isn't private.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like KidCharlemagne1962's post
29-07-2013, 02:43 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:34 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 02:32 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Well, you have to face the reality that they aren't. When you click the "I agree" terms and conditions, you have essentially allowed them to give that information away. I like the feeling of privacy, but I don't argue that it's their even when it's not.

The Internet is such a big part of everyone's life nowadays, don't you think we should have laws in place to protect the citizens' emails?

There has been a large gap between the advancement of the technology and the legal framework but it seems as though (in America anyway) the internet is going to be treated as a public forum and as such you have no inherent right to privacy. Emails and private communication is kind of tricky and I'm with Chas (and most people really) in those should be privileged. But as it stands now I don't believe they are.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Revenant77x's post
29-07-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:43 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  But as it stands now I don't believe they are.

Well, legally, they clearly aren't. Drinking Beverage

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2013, 02:57 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:42 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 02:34 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  The Internet is such a big part of everyone's life nowadays, don't you think we should have laws in place to protect the citizens' emails?

When you do anything on the net your info is most likely passing through servers in several jurisdictions (local, national and internatioanl). You're unlikely to get any further "privacy" for your email.

I do not expect any privacy on line, like A2's comment about being in public, there is no privacy in public. The Internet isn't private.

I understand the whole, if it isn't yours you can't expect privacy statement, but people have every document they have ever written on the internet or in emails because they basically have to, whether it be for work or just because that is the best way. Peoples' entire lives would be ruined if some of the stuff they did or had written to someone thinking it was private got out. Maybe it will never change, but in a perfect world all emails would be like the postal service.

[Image: g-HitchensThinkSelf.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2013, 02:58 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:57 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 02:42 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  When you do anything on the net your info is most likely passing through servers in several jurisdictions (local, national and internatioanl). You're unlikely to get any further "privacy" for your email.

I do not expect any privacy on line, like A2's comment about being in public, there is no privacy in public. The Internet isn't private.

I understand the whole, if it isn't yours you can't expect privacy statement, but people have every document they have ever written on the internet or in emails because they basically have to, whether it be for work or just because that is the best way. Peoples' entire lives would be ruined if some of the stuff they did or had written to someone thinking it was private got out. Maybe it will never change, but in a perfect world all emails would be like the postal service.

That's the thing. IN A PERFECT WORLD.

There is no such thing, buddy. Drinking Beverage

I agree that emails should be private, but I don't expect them to be.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Atothetheist's post
29-07-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:58 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 02:57 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  I understand the whole, if it isn't yours you can't expect privacy statement, but people have every document they have ever written on the internet or in emails because they basically have to, whether it be for work or just because that is the best way. Peoples' entire lives would be ruined if some of the stuff they did or had written to someone thinking it was private got out. Maybe it will never change, but in a perfect world all emails would be like the postal service.

That's the thing. IN A PERFECT WORLD.

There is no such thing, buddy. Drinking Beverage

Yes, I understand, but no one ever said we couldn't try to make it one. Big Grin

[Image: g-HitchensThinkSelf.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-07-2013, 03:03 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(29-07-2013 02:59 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(29-07-2013 02:58 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  That's the thing. IN A PERFECT WORLD.

There is no such thing, buddy. Drinking Beverage

Yes, I understand, but no one ever said we couldn't try to make it one. Big Grin

We could never try to make a perfect world, such a thing is impossible.

We can, however, strive to make an IDEAL world, such a thing is possible.

[Image: 0013382F-E507-48AE-906B-53008666631C-757...cc3639.jpg]
Credit goes to UndercoverAtheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Atothetheist's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: