Snowden Situation
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02-08-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: Snowden Situation
Shit I was hoping you'd call me young and naive.
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02-08-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 11:21 AM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  You guys are impossible. If you want to be apologetic toward this tyrannical, overstepping government that does things even when they know it is wrong and then keeps it secret, only to lie about it when it comes out from an innocent whistleblower, then there is no hope for you. I am done posting on here.

Cynicism - the worst you could accuse Chas or Revenant of - is not apologia.

Many of the actions and policies in question have, in fact, been repudiated by everyone here. There is not a single person who has said "this is perfect, nothing is wrong".

It was secret because that's how surveillance works.

Innocent refers to a legal status, which has been more than covered upthread.

Actions were taken by elected representatives, which for all their flaws, and those of the system, hardly amounts to tyranny.

The place for genuine discussion is as to what degree of surveillance is necessary in order to maintain reasonable security, and what degree of surveillance is excessively infringing on the rights of the individual.

The answer must unfortunately be more than none at all.

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02-08-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 11:30 AM)sandman Wrote:  Chas you're right again. No apologies just cowardly apathy. I guess Ben Franklin was right-we deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Why doesn't the second amendment cover nuclear weapons?

Because liberty and safety aren't a one-dimensional zero-sum scale.

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02-08-2013, 12:18 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 11:38 AM)sandman Wrote:  Shit I was hoping you'd call me young and naive.

You have clearly confused me with someone else. Your apology will be accepted.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-08-2013, 02:18 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
Chas I'm reflecting over a glass of wine what I said and I confess I mischaracterized what you said to make a point. I went too far using the term "cowardly". I was referring to an attitude generally and not you or anyone personally. For that I apologize .

Cjlr I realize terrorism is not a zero sum game. It never was. The horrible losses at 9/11 pale in comparison to many other tragedies eg Chile's own 9/11 with its aftermath or the abandonment of Kurdish rebels to the wrath of Sadaam but I do see that the threat of nuclear attack by irrational people puts a whole new light on things. I recall crouching underused desk when Kennedy and Khrushchev were facing off but these were rational people and look how close we came them to annihilation. So I guess I need more time to reflect and much more wine.
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02-08-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
Under my desk that is
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02-08-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In2jXn7iyUY

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02-08-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(26-07-2013 09:54 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  So, what is to be made of the Snowden Situation?

Situations like these just bring up a problem that is already resolved within our society. We are not hitting a tipping point with these situations, and nothing surprising is being revealed.

We live in a society where people expect absolutely mandatory privileges, while at the same time wanting to get as close as they can get to minimum responsibility.

The liberty they value is granted; the liberty not granted and in question is not of high importance. It is not even of high enough importance to cause concern or even notice in some.

The problem is resolved and was resolved way before Snowden.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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02-08-2013, 08:07 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(01-08-2013 11:15 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  the only people who should be worried about being spied on are the people with something to hide. If you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't worry about it.

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02-08-2013, 09:56 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 08:07 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(01-08-2013 11:15 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  the only people who should be worried about being spied on are the people with something to hide. If you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't worry about it.

[Image: 936528_10201942149139254_1566149753_n.jpg]

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good try Likos, good try.... LOL

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