Snowden Situation
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02-08-2013, 10:05 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 09:56 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 08:07 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  [Image: 936528_10201942149139254_1566149753_n.jpg]

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good try Likos, good try.... LOL

His picture, while funny, doesn't address his statement. The US Government is not Nazism, and does not have the same goals as Nazism.

So, I don't see how Ridethespiral addressed, or shot down what he said.

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02-08-2013, 10:09 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 10:05 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 09:56 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  good try Likos, good try.... LOL

His picture, while funny, doesn't address his statement. The US Government is not Nazism, and does not have the same goals as Nazism.

So, I don't see how Ridethespiral addressed, or shot down what he said.

Look, if you think that we all just don't give a shit, you're wrong. We give a shit, but giving a shit doesn't mean we have to agree with you.

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02-08-2013, 10:18 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
Seriously....are you afraid of the FBI breaking down your door for posting on TTA or something? Why is everyone so hung up on their "privacy" on the interwebs? You post on a public source, you search on a public source, NOTHING is private on the internet. Why is this such a big fuckin deal? How is this "illegal"? 4chan has proven time and again that "Anonymous" doesn't mean shit, you will post something on 4chan and the entire community suddenly has your IP and ISP, which leads to your location.

There is even a story online from some dude who played COD online with some kid, got his ass kicked, then tracked his IP went to the kids house and choked him. If a normal person can do that on Any day of the week, why is it so hard to believe and accept the the gov. is doing the same damn thing?

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02-08-2013, 10:35 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 10:05 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 09:56 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  good try Likos, good try.... LOL

His picture, while funny, doesn't address his statement. The US Government is not Nazism, and does not have the same goals as Nazism.

So, I don't see how Ridethespiral addressed, or shot down what he said.

The point it is not that to equate the US government to the Nazis, the point is to say that clandestine operations inherently interfere with democracy...and who knows what the next administration will do with the information if we don't act to legislate and restrict such a program. The US government is not worthy of such a power, especially not in secret, they have far too much to fix and they have not been particularly effective at anything as of late.

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02-08-2013, 10:47 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 10:35 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 10:05 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  His picture, while funny, doesn't address his statement. The US Government is not Nazism, and does not have the same goals as Nazism.

So, I don't see how Ridethespiral addressed, or shot down what he said.

The point it is not that to equate the US government to the Nazis, the point is to say that clandestine operations inherently interfere with democracy...and who knows what the next administration will do with the information if we don't act to legislate and restrict such a program. The US government is not worthy of such a power, especially not in secret, they have far too much to fix and they have not been particularly effective at anything as of late.

I agree that what they are doing is wrong. I agree your points about clandestine operations. I am on your side. However, I do not agree with what Snowden did, nor do I think he is a hero. I think there were better choices he could have made if he really wanted to do something about it.


The simple fact that he didn't go through with the better choices means he didn't know them, couldn't do them, or didn't want to do them.

If he didn't know them, then he wasn't responsible enough to learn them.

My position is this: Snowden didn't do this for the people. He did this to get famous, and to have people think he is a hero.

I will not respect a man who's reason for exposing the government is so that he could have his name known throughout the world.

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02-08-2013, 10:59 PM (This post was last modified: 02-08-2013 11:04 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 10:47 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 10:35 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  The point it is not that to equate the US government to the Nazis, the point is to say that clandestine operations inherently interfere with democracy...and who knows what the next administration will do with the information if we don't act to legislate and restrict such a program. The US government is not worthy of such a power, especially not in secret, they have far too much to fix and they have not been particularly effective at anything as of late.

I agree that what they are doing is wrong. I agree your points about clandestine operations. I am on your side. However, I do not agree with what Snowden did, nor do I think he is a hero. I think there were better choices he could have made if he really wanted to do something about it.


The simple fact that he didn't go through with the better choices means he didn't know them, couldn't do them, or didn't want to do them.

If he didn't know them, then he wasn't responsible enough to learn them.

My position is this: Snowden didn't do this for the people. He did this to get famous, and to have people think he is a hero.

I will not respect a man who's reason for exposing the government is so that he could have his name known throughout the world.

So you are cool with Manning then?

I just think the demonization of Snowden is a red herring for the state. I'll give you that he is not the model whistle blower running off to China and all that but he's not the problem, the problem is that a fucking contractor had access to that kind of information! How can one defend an espionage program that gathers data on the whole of society and is accessible by some contractor. Can you imagine the dirt these guys could drudge through during election season?

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02-08-2013, 11:05 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 10:59 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 10:47 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  I agree that what they are doing is wrong. I agree your points about clandestine operations. I am on your side. However, I do not agree with what Snowden did, nor do I think he is a hero. I think there were better choices he could have made if he really wanted to do something about it.


The simple fact that he didn't go through with the better choices means he didn't know them, couldn't do them, or didn't want to do them.

If he didn't know them, then he wasn't responsible enough to learn them.

My position is this: Snowden didn't do this for the people. He did this to get famous, and to have people think he is a hero.

I will not respect a man who's reason for exposing the government is so that he could have his name known throughout the world.

So you are cool with Manning then?

I just think the demonization of Snowden is a red herring for the state. I'll give you that he is not the model whistle blower running off to China and all that but he's not the problem, the problem is that a fucking contractor had access to that kind of information! How can one defend an espionage program that gathers data on the whole of society and is accessible by some contractor. Can you imagine the dirt these guys could drudge through during election season?

To be honest, I don't even know about Manning.

I am not defending what the NSA is doing.

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02-08-2013, 11:32 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
Manning was even worse imo. Manning release 700k classified military documents, as opposed to Snowden only reporting the NSA's actions. Manning's release of classified documents could have lead to US military personnel's deaths....Can you imagine your brother/sister/father/mother being killed because of what that man released to the public? We have classifications and clearances for a reason. Certain things, if known to the world, could put our own people's lives at stake.

Everyone on here seems to forget that, while your hung up on what the gov is doing or if the person is a hero or not, these people could get our guys KIA. I don't think a "hero" would deliberately put another person at risk just to get a little fame.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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02-08-2013, 11:39 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(02-08-2013 11:32 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  Manning was even worse imo. Manning release 700k classified military documents, as opposed to Snowden only reporting the NSA's actions. Manning's release of classified documents could have lead to US military personnel's deaths....Can you imagine your brother/sister/father/mother being killed because of what that man released to the public? We have classifications and clearances for a reason. Certain things, if known to the world, could put our own people's lives at stake.

Everyone on here seems to forget that, while your hung up on what the gov is doing or if the person is a hero or not, these people could get our guys KIA. I don't think a "hero" would deliberately put another person at risk just to get a little fame.

Ohh Jebus why did I even bring it up. No, No and No. Go read my post in the manning thread. Drinking Beverage

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02-08-2013, 11:46 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
How does what you say about him in a thread on an online forum change the facts?

Did he release classified Info? Yes
Did he do it willfully? Yes
Could the information have been used by outside governments? Yes
Could the information put US Military Personnel at risk? Yes

The judge ruled that malice was not his intention so he didn't get treason, but he PLEAD guilty, he admitted it.

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