Snowden Situation
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27-07-2013, 09:45 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:42 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  No, it was pretty clear before you told them your age.
It just made you from a stupid retard to a naive kid which is more forgiving.

Well if I'm an ignorant little kid with too big of a mouth, you're an old man with too big of a mouth that doesn't give a shit about freedom or privacy. I know which one I'd rather be. Laughat Say I'm too young all you want, the NSA spying is illegal.

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27-07-2013, 09:46 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 08:42 PM)I and I Wrote:  That's what I thought, you have no clue what the fuck you are talking about. You make a claim he releases classified info yet you conveniently can't list just one example.... Smells like a bullshitter.

In fact, is any government official even claiming he released classified info?

Are... are you serious?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/0...GL20130609

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/2...8220130725

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27-07-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:45 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 09:42 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  No, it was pretty clear before you told them your age.
It just made you from a stupid retard to a naive kid which is more forgiving.

Well if I'm an ignorant little kid with too big of a mouth, you're an old man with too big of a mouth that doesn't give a shit about freedom or privacy. I know which one I'd rather be. Laughat Say I'm too young all you want, the NSA spying is illegal.

No, I'm an old man who understands how shit works and has realistic opinions/views based on that.

You're just a naive kid who has opinions/views based on the idea of how you THINK the world works.

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27-07-2013, 09:48 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:44 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Let's not forget that this kid is only a year younger (possibly less) than me.

If you want to make a big deal about his age, and criticize him for it, you need to know that I think that pointing out age is bullshit.

I don't really appreciate how some of you people point at him being young, and then using it to insult him. Mostly because I don't see age as the problem, I see lack of experience, and lack of insight and information as the key factors.

Shut up Steven, the grown ups are talking.
Go to your room young man.

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27-07-2013, 09:50 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:45 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 09:42 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  No, it was pretty clear before you told them your age.
It just made you from a stupid retard to a naive kid which is more forgiving.

Well if I'm an ignorant little kid with too big of a mouth, you're an old man with too big of a mouth that doesn't give a shit about freedom or privacy. I know which one I'd rather be. Laughat Say I'm too young all you want, the NSA spying is illegal.

No, it isn't illegal.

We keep on telling you that it isn't, but you just won't listen.

Nobody is saying that what the NSA is/has been doing is morally right, but everyone, save for you, is saying that it is legal.

Legalities and moralities are more different than just a few different letters.


Let me ask you a question: Do you believe that the constitution, when written, was the ideal document?

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27-07-2013, 09:50 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:45 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  the NSA spying is illegal.

I don't know anything about you as a person. You don't know anything about me as a person.

That statement is still not correct.

Deal with it.


I have absolutely no idea what you meant by saying it's technically legal but also actually illegal. You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

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27-07-2013, 09:51 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:39 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:The government is not allowed to spy on US citizens without a valid reason and right to defense. If I am so naive and so crazy for thinking I can have privacy, why are all those people in Germany protesting? I'd say because they haven't given up on freedom yet. You thinking this NSA activity is acceptable is where you are completely wrong.

They're protesting because the liberals will protest anything and everything.
Being the loudest doesn't mean you are the consensus. Also, since when did "look, they're doing it" become an argument lol? You know you're on an atheist forum right?

It does have a valid reason. Where else are the FBI gonna get fapping material from? duh.

"ohh yes, that's it, read that news article ip address 123.23.23.1, fuck yeah right there, that's the spot!"

Quote:Using my lifetime to fight for justice, protection of civil liberties, and constitutional rights will not be a waste, I assure you. While I may not save the world, I will be much more useful than you and your badmouthing of freedom and privacy. I would be ashamed if I was you.

Lol.
I just wanna pinch your checks right now.

Quote:You obviously don't understand the importance of the constitution and it's overlording properties, but no law is allowed to contradict it, which the Patriot Act blatantly does. While I understand now that I was wrong before with the technical aspects of laws in the US, which I think are ridiculous, the NSA acts were legal in the most shallow of means. Since they contradict the constitution so obviously and will be repealed and be found unconstitutional in the future, what Snowden did was justified because he brought the attention of the people to the subject. Now the public knows that the government has been spying on them even more than we thought before. Obama has been found to be a liar, because he said he would stop this NSA "illegal" wire tapping before he even got into office and ended up doing nothing. I'd say that is a pretty big accomplishment for one man. All this being said, I think I have a perfectly reasonable argument, and I would challenge you to disprove the fact that the NSA actions are unconstitutional, despite of the overwhelming evidence.

I don't need too, others have done that.

But to repeat what they said, it was legal and what Snowden did was illegal.
He could have gone through legal procedures to blow the whistle, but he didn't, so tough biscuits to him.

Quote:This NSA activity goes up to the line, tramples all over it, rips it up, then goes 20 miles past it. It blatantly contradicts the constitution which ensures us 100% privacy in our personal accounts, and this NSA stuff doesn't allow us that. Therefore, the actions should be illegal and cannot be tolerated.

Lol.
So adorable.

You're just babbling and it's not even worth trying to refute your arguments because it's obvious that you don't value individual freedoms, rights, or privacy. You disregard news articles that contradict your argument and use my age as a reason my argument is invalid. Thanks for the posts, but I will not respond to nonsense.

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27-07-2013, 09:53 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:50 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 09:45 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  the NSA spying is illegal.

I don't know anything about you as a person. You don't know anything about me as a person.

That statement is still not correct.

Deal with it.


I have absolutely no idea what you meant by saying it's technically legal but also actually illegal. You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

Okay, am I wrong with this statement?

A law that contradicts the constitution of a country should not be law.

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27-07-2013, 09:55 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:51 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
(27-07-2013 09:39 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  They're protesting because the liberals will protest anything and everything.
Being the loudest doesn't mean you are the consensus. Also, since when did "look, they're doing it" become an argument lol? You know you're on an atheist forum right?

It does have a valid reason. Where else are the FBI gonna get fapping material from? duh.

"ohh yes, that's it, read that news article ip address 123.23.23.1, fuck yeah right there, that's the spot!"


Lol.
I just wanna pinch your checks right now.


I don't need too, others have done that.

But to repeat what they said, it was legal and what Snowden did was illegal.
He could have gone through legal procedures to blow the whistle, but he didn't, so tough biscuits to him.


Lol.
So adorable.

You're just babbling and it's not even worth trying to refute your arguments because it's obvious that you don't value individual freedoms, rights, or privacy. You disregard news articles that contradict your argument and use my age as a reason my argument is invalid. Thanks for the posts, but I will not respond to nonsense.


Actually I do value freedom, I just don't see the NSA 'spying' as a breech of that freedom, or well comes close to crossing the line.
Why?
Because they collect data on literally hundreds of millions of people. There is so much data there that unless you are a terrorist, your name will never come up.
It's so funny you think that you are that special that you warrant special attention to be specific spied on.

Do you object to the census?

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27-07-2013, 09:55 PM
RE: Snowden Situation
(27-07-2013 09:19 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  
Quote:But they can...
It's entirely legal.

The government is not allowed to spy on US citizens without a valid reason and right to defense. If I am so naive and so crazy for thinking I can have privacy, why are all those people in Germany protesting? I'd say because they haven't given up on freedom yet. You thinking this NSA activity is acceptable is where you are completely wrong.

Quote:You can waste your whole life then, perhaps your opinion will change when you leave home and have to actual experience the world.
It's so precious when teenagers say they're going to save the world.
Mmmk, you go do that son, you go save the world.

Using my lifetime to fight for justice, protection of civil liberties, and constitutional rights will not be a waste, I assure you. While I may not save the world, I will be much more useful than you and your badmouthing of freedom and privacy. I would be ashamed if I was you.

Quote:As you said, it was technically legal and considering that is all that matters your argument is invalid.


You obviously don't understand the importance of the constitution and it's overlording properties, but no law is allowed to contradict it, which the Patriot Act blatantly does. While I understand now that I was wrong before with the technical aspects of laws in the US, which I think are ridiculous, the NSA acts were legal in the most shallow of means. Since they contradict the constitution so obviously and will be repealed and be found unconstitutional in the future, what Snowden did was justified because he brought the attention of the people to the subject. Now the public knows that the government has been spying on them even more than we thought before. Obama has been found to be a liar, because he said he would stop this NSA "illegal" wire tapping before he even got into office and ended up doing nothing. I'd say that is a pretty big accomplishment for one man.

I love your passion about this issue kid, I think your not seeing the forest for the trees but hey at least you care. You are taking a very naive approach to this however. Security is always a trade off with total freedom. Me I'm ok with less security and more freedom but most people aren't. The average person would trade vague freedoms for even vaguer security so when your arguing this fight being correct in all your facts matters.

Quote:All this being said, I think I have a perfectly reasonable argument, and I would challenge you to disprove the fact that the NSA actions are unconstitutional, despite of the overwhelming evidence.

The overwhelming evidence is the Supreme court upheld the Patriot Act and it was just renewed so according to the arbiters of constitutionality it is Constitutional. You can disagree with the ruling (I do) you can call them activist judges, but what you can't do is say something is unconstitutional after the supreme court has upheld it. You can hold the opinion that the court got it wrong but their say is the final word on the matter. That is how the system works the legislative branch (congress) passes the law, the executive branch signs it (the president), and court rules on its constitutionality.

In the end all Snowden did was cause a minor political scandal that has already died down to just being a joke for the most part because he handled the entire affair wrong. He decided to make a big show of it instead of following protocol and the legal spelled out way a whistleblower can expose corruption. He did none of that and instead leaked classified information to anyone that would take it thus making himself a traitor and a criminal. I can feel some sympathy for Bradley Manning, personally I think he got duped by a slick talker in Julian Assange and ended up taking the fall for him. But Snowden made sure everyone knew his name from day 1, he put his ego ahead of his supposed cause and then had the misfortune of discovering that the Chinese don't really care about the NSA spying (they have their own spy agencies as does pretty much every other country) definitely not enough to risk the trade agreements with the US and then he ends up stuck where he is now until the Russians either turn him over to Washington (the most likely outcome) or he manages to get to a safe haven country with amnesty and considering the events that have already happened with the President of Bolivia's plane being detained because it was rumored this guy was on board I doubt that will happen.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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