So.. Destiny 2 huh?
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21-09-2017, 09:43 PM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2017 03:40 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
(21-09-2017 06:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:What? I'd consider compelling a prerequisite for good, at bare minimum.

I disagree. There are other factors to consider. Like you said, he's a husk and so people can project themselves onto him and immerse themselves in the game.
I'd consider that good thing and thus Chief a good character because it allows you to do that. Though I don't see him as simply just an empty husk, he is more than that.

That's like saying that a book filled with blank pages is a great story, because the reader can imagine their own.

Which is utter bollocks.

Chief is practically a tabula rasa, given slightly more personality than Gordon Freeman on account of not being a silent protagonist. His single defining trait is stoicism.

That does not make for a compelling, well rounded character with motivations, desires, and a strong personality of their own. In short, Master Chief is not a good character, even if you enjoy playing as him or inhabiting his world.


(21-09-2017 06:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:If Chief is your personal high water mark, then clearly you have missed a lot of the genre.

"But in comparison to pretty much all FPS games, like Battlefield or CoD or Destiny or whatever"

That being multiplayer fps games with a single player campaign thrown in.

Obviously, a game that's single player focused is going to have a more compelling campaign then one that's multiplayer focused.

So? With the exception of Wolfenstein, all of those games had multiplayer modes.

Don't try to backtrack now, 'pretty much all FPS games' means just that. Also, Call of Duty is renowned for the single player campaigns, their spectacle and showpiece moments. But much like HALO, little time is spent on building a good character. They inhabit interesting worlds with interesting things happening to them (like getting blowing out of the air by a nuclear blast in Modern Warfare), but often jumping around to multiple characters leaves little time for exposition between all the explosions. Trying to write them (and their blank slate protagonists) off with the excuse of being 'multiplayer focused' is entirely disingenuous. Battlefield, Call of Duty, and HALO all lavish a ton of budget, time, and resources on their single player components. Hell, so did Titanfall on it's second attempt, and Respawn Entertainment (founded by former senior staff from Infinity Ward) managed to create a far better character in protagonist Jack Cooper with his hero's journey of becoming a pilot by fire and his camaraderie with his Titan and partner, BT-7274. It was simple, but effective, and did a better job at fleshing out Cooper in a single game than HALO did with Chief across an entire trilogy. Chief does not even have a simple character arc, he is the same stoic space marine at the end of a game as he was at the start of it.

Chief is little more than a gravelly voiced stoic space marine. Now, you can certainly like gravelly voiced stoic space marines, but that doesn't make them good characters. You can enjoy playing as gravely voiced stoic space marines, but that doesn't make them good characters. You can enjoy inhabiting the world of gravelly voiced stoic space marines, but that doesn't make them good characters.

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22-09-2017, 03:30 AM
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
Damn fells, sorry for the wall of text. This kinda got away from me a bit hahah ...ha.

I played the first Destiny till shortly after completing the Vault of Glass raid where I dropped it until a little after Taken King came out where I played it for about 2 weeks and then dropped it again. When it first came out it was a skeleton of a game. The core was strong, the gunplay was tight (some of the best at the time to be honest) and it was well tuned and not terribly buggy. However, it poorly balanced especially in PvP which was a twitchy mess with the Time To Kill of a mayfly in a microwave, the weaponry while enjoyable to use was generic and largely uninspired (though artistically gorgeous), the majority of the content outside the raids was undisguised grind that wasn't engaging in the slightest, and worst of all the campaign was so so bad and so poorly written it made Peter fucking Dinklage seem bad. You have to actively try to be bad to ruin that mans work.
The fundamentals were strong but it was what was wrapped around that core, and the lack of things that absolutely should have been there and were not, that wrecked the game for me. To this day I do not understand how constantly having to go back to your ship made it live, I really really don't. Taken King was the first moment that the game felt like a proper fleshed out, though still deeply flawed, game. Taken king was the moment where it felt like I was not playing an unfinished Beta.



Now before I get into talking about Destiny 2 I should present my bias upfront. I'm a narratively driven person, I live and breath for story. I'm also extremely critical, even of art I enjoy. As such I can look past a subpar story if the experience is good or if I get heavily immersed. And boy howdy can I get immersed in art. I know EK has mentioned it already but Spec Ops: The Line made me hate myself as a person when I was done for days, and permanently altered my ability to enjoy military shooters. I wept watching Schindler's List for the first time, and there are parts of both Toradora and Death Parade that have left me crying and emotionally drained. It's why I consider this scene to be among the most hauntingly beautiful and deeply tragic in cinema history. Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice was the only game I have ever had to force myself to take breaks from playing for my own safety (PTSD) and it was heartbreakingly beautiful because of it.

But I love stories. Even as a child I loved narrative. If I was to give you my list of top 25 Games of all time almost every single one of them is narrative focused. This is why while I can completely acknowledge that while Skyrim is among the best games ever made it's never come close to cracking even my top 50. It's never left me unable to sleep in the way that Spec Ops: The Line or Bioshock Infinite has. In the way that the anime Death Parade, the TV show Hannibal, or countless movies from The Hunt to The Prestige all the way back to Akira Kurosawa's The Seven Samurai have. Destiny ....just never did. The universe they built was a mishmash of science-fiction tropes and clichés, poorly realized and poorly executed. Worst of all it had nothing to say, not in the way of the human experience or nature. It has no moral or philosophical underpinnings, it's a well-polished box with nothing inside.

I'm willing to take some flak for this but ...Bungie has never been able to grip me. They have never produced a narrative that I found exceptional. They have produced some absolutely amazing games and I have no doubt those games have deep personal meaning to many people and that is 100% legitimate but to me, it's never been something I could just......lose myself in. And that's fine. There are so many ways to tell a compelling story but not every way fits every person, and not every message hits every person. You can have a poor plot with fantastic characters and still tell a good story. You can have an amazing plot with poor characterization and still tell a fantastic story. Bungie just doesn't tell the type of story I like in the way I like my stories to be told. The question is did they get closer to what I like, especially narratively speaking, with Destiny 2?




In a word, no. Destiny 2 suffers from a lot of the same problems as the original, a strong skeleton but everything else is middling at best. The gunplay is still tight, hella tight, and the art team is still delivering some fantastic stuff and I'd bet dollars to dimes the raids will be fantastic but........ I've already played this and it still feels unfinished. There is a better variety of activities in this game but again almost none of it is engaging outside of a small handful. The multiplayer is.....better? Worse? Honestly, I don't know lol. The TTK is much improved imo, and it's less twitchy but the nerf to "ability spam" makes it kinda....boring really. There are a lot of structural problems too, the fact that there are no random stats/mods/whatever on the exotics means there will be just a flat-out best loadout and once you have it your basically done and it will be raid required for any half decent raid team. RN-Jesus is the lifeblood of these types of games and they have killed a lot of that longevity. D3 for examples is a game I'm done within about 10 hours if every time an item dropped it's the best version it can ever be. I think it's an issue that will take a while to manifest but will be a real problem down the road. At least I don't have to go to my ship every fucking time I wanna go anywhere.

So narrative. How does it stack up? Well......the best thing I can say about the story in Destiny 2 is that it exists and it's not "wizards on the moon" bad. But it's not good either. Honestly, the highlight of it is the interactions among the 2 villains as they are infinity more interesting than any character among the good guys...with the exception of the female pilot but that's debatable but even then the villains are generic and nothing to write home about. It's full of tropes and clichés and it still feels like the story has nothing to say either directly or indirectly. And the plot holes. Oh ho ho, the goddamn plot holes. Some of them are so big that if this game got anywhere near a decent sci-fi franchise I could pilot a Retribution-class Battleship through the fucking thing. In the first level alone, the one in the beta with the attack on the tower, there are so many glaring plot issues and examples of just poor writing and bizarre choices I don't even know where to start. I mean...for fuck sake the social hub in this science-fiction game is a farmhouse. *sigh*

To make a good sequel you need to either innovate or iterate and some of the best ones experiment. Destiny 2 does not do any of these. It's not initiative in its genre, among its contemporaries or even compared to its own first outing. It does literally nothing new of any note. Any iteration it does is...horizontal at best, there are some improvements in PvP (TTK being the most obvious) but some of the changes are bad to the point where I don't see anything (outside of story) that's a direct improvement over the original. I refuse to set the bar so low that having a story that's not "moon wizards" idiotic counts as an innovation or iteration. There is fucking ZERO experimentation going on in this game, it's one of the least boat rocking squeals I've seen in years, it's absolutely as safe a game as you could make and it comes off feeling just as soulless and uninspired as the original.
Take Halo: Reach as an example of how to do a sequel right. It experimented, it tried new things, and it took risks, and they paid off. While it's not my cup of tea and I think you could rename the game to Heroic Sacrifice Trope: The Game it's still a damn fine game and arguably better than all the Halo games before and after it and one of the best console shooters out there. Hell, it still has one of the best horde modes ever to this day.

To wrap up this god awfully long rant the question at the end of the day the reason I won't buy the game is ...I already own Overwatch and BF1 so why spend the money on something both not as good and something I've already played? What experience does D2 offer that D1 didn't? I mean Total War: Warhammer 2 is out in a week and other video games might as well not even exist for the next 5 months so what's the damn point haha?

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22-09-2017, 04:11 AM
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
(22-09-2017 03:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  ...and worst of all the campaign was so so bad and so poorly written it made Peter fucking Dinklage seem bad. You have to actively try to be bad to ruin that mans work.

See Also: Pixels






(22-09-2017 03:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I know EK has mentioned it already but Spec Ops: The Line made me hate myself as a person when I was done for days, and permanently altered my ability to enjoy military shooters.

Want me to ruin another one for you?

The Division is a celebration of fascist authoritarianism where you effectively play an American version of the Waffen-SS.





I can no longer play that game without feeling disgusted, and I haven't played it again since.


(22-09-2017 03:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  But I love stories. Even as a child I loved narrative. If I was to give you my list of top 25 Games of all time almost every single one of them is narrative focused.

Dragon Age II better be on that list! Angry




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(22-09-2017 03:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I'm willing to take some flak for this but ...Bungie has never been able to grip me. They have never produced a narrative that I found exceptional. They have produced some absolutely amazing games and I have no doubt those games have deep personal meaning to many people and that is 100% legitimate but to me, it's never been something I could just......lose myself in. And that's fine. There are so many ways to tell a compelling story but not every way fits every person, and not every message hits every person. You can have a poor plot with fantastic characters and still tell a good story. You can have an amazing plot with poor characterization and still tell a fantastic story. Bungie just doesn't tell the type of story I like in the way I like my stories to be told. The question is did they get closer to what I like, especially narratively speaking, with Destiny 2?

Bungie, much like Bethesda, are amazing world crafters. They can make a world that you want to inhabit for hours on end, one you can enjoy exploring and getting to know more of. But neither of them are terribly good at making good characters or strong narratives. They do occasionally have their moments (Nick Valentine in Fallout 4 comes to mind), but it's most definitely not their strong suite. It actually is rather apropos that Destiny has customizable avatars for the player to invest themselves into, as going whole hog with a tabula rasa protagonist is probably best for them, as they were already 95% of the way there with Master Chief.


(22-09-2017 03:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  There are a lot of structural problems too, the fact that there are no random stats/mods/whatever on the exotics means there will be just a flat-out best loadout and once you have it your basically done and it will be raid required for any half decent raid team. RN-Jesus is the lifeblood of these types of games and they have killed a lot of that longevity. D3 for examples is a game I'm done within about 10 hours if every time an item dropped it's the best version it can ever be. I think it's an issue that will take a while to manifest but will be a real problem down the road.

As a Diablo 3 veteran myself, that doesn't bother me at all. After seeing the bullshit that randomization can become when taken to the other extreme (D3's Ancient and Primal legendaries), I am more than okay with that. I want an enjoyable experience that won't kneecap me if I put it down for awhile; I'd rather have an enjoyable game over a second job (See Also - EVE Online).

For the sake of reference, a Legendary item in Diablo has a 10% chance to drop as an Ancient, with about 30% better rolls than the Legendary would normally have, resulting in a much better item on average. Any Ancient drop has a 10% of being Primal, which maxes out all of an item's stats. So a 10% on top of a 10% leaves you with a 1%, on top of however low the drop chance is for that particular item already. That's fuckin' bollocks, especially if you're trying to push up the Greater Rift leader-boards.


(22-09-2017 03:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  To make a good sequel you need to either innovate or iterate and some of the best ones experiment. Destiny 2 does not do any of these. It's not initiative in its genre, among its contemporaries or even compared to its own first outing. It does literally nothing new of any note.

Not to be too pedantic (but I totally am), that is the definition of iterative. Tongue


(22-09-2017 03:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Any iteration it does is...horizontal at best, there are some improvements in PvP (TTK being the most obvious) but some of the changes are bad to the point where I don't see anything (outside of story) that's a direct improvement over the original. I refuse to set the bar so low that having a story that's not "moon wizards" idiotic counts as an innovation or iteration. There is fucking ZERO experimentation going on in this game, it's one of the least boat rocking squeals I've seen in years, it's absolutely as safe a game as you could make and it comes off feeling just as soulless and uninspired as the original.

On the plus side, you no longer need to consult an out-of-game app for story supplements, right?


(22-09-2017 03:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Take Halo: Reach as an example of how to do a sequel right. It experimented, it tried new things, and it took risks, and they paid off. While it's not my cup of tea and I think you could rename the game to Heroic Sacrifice Trope: The Game it's still a damn fine game and arguably better than all the Halo games before and after it and one of the best console shooters out there. Hell, it still has one of the best horde modes ever to this day.

The best Horde Mode game is still Killing Floor 2, but I'll let that slide for now. Wink


(22-09-2017 03:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  To wrap up this god awfully long rant the question at the end of the day the reason I won't buy the game is ...I already own Overwatch and BF1 so why spend the money on something both not as good and something I've already played? What experience does D2 offer that D1 didn't? I mean Total War: Warhammer 2 is out in a week and other video games might as well not even exist for the next 5 months so what's the damn point haha?

I'm just interested in trying a loot shooter that is not PAYDAY/The Division/Borderlands to tide me over until Monster Hunter World comes out early next year. Plus I haven't played a Bungie title on PC since the original HALO: Combat Evolved port, and technically speaking, I still haven't. The original HALO:CE port was done by Gearbox, and the post of Destiny 2 for PC is being handled by Vicarious Visions (the crazy programming wizards who got Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 to run on the GameBoy Advance and DOOM 3 to run on the Xbox).

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22-09-2017, 06:01 AM
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
(21-09-2017 09:43 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(21-09-2017 06:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I disagree. There are other factors to consider. Like you said, he's a husk and so people can project themselves onto him and immerse themselves in the game.
I'd consider that good thing and thus Chief a good character because it allows you to do that. Though I don't see him as simply just an empty husk, he is more than that.

That's like saying that a book filled with blank pages is a great story, because the reader can imagine their own.

Which is utter bollocks.

Chief is practically a tabula rasa, given slightly more personality than Gordon Freeman on account of not being a silent protagonist. His single defining trait is stoicism.

That does not make for a compelling, well rounded character with motivations, desires, and a strong personality of their own. In short, Master Chief is not a good character, even if you enjoy playing as him or inhabiting his world.


(21-09-2017 06:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  "But in comparison to pretty much all FPS games, like Battlefield or CoD or Destiny or whatever"

That being multiplayer fps games with a single player campaign thrown in.

Obviously, a game that's single player focused is going to have a more compelling campaign then one that's multiplayer focused.

So? With the exception of Wolfenstein, all of those games had multiplayer modes.

Don't try to backtrack now, 'pretty much all FPS games' means just that. Also, Call of Duty is renowned for the single player campaigns, their spectacle and showpiece moments. But much like HALO, little time is spent on building a good character. They inhabit interesting worlds with interesting things happening to them (like getting blowing out of the air by a nuclear blast in Modern Warfare), but often jumping around to multiple characters leaves little time for exposition between all the explosions. Trying to write them (and their blank slate protagonists) off with the excuse of being 'multiplayer focused' is entirely disingenuous. Battlefield, Call of Duty, and HALO all lavish a ton of budget, time, and resources on their single player components. Hell, so did Titanfall on it's second attempt, and Respawn Entertainment (founded by former senior staff from Infinity Ward) managed to create a far better character in protagonist Jack Cooper with his hero's journey of becoming a pilot by fire and his camaraderie with his Titan and partner, BT-7274. It was simple, but effective, and did a better job at fleshing out Cooper in a single game than HALO did with Chief across an entire trilogy. Chief does not even have a simple character arc, he is the same stoic space marine at the end of a game as he was at the start of it.

Chief is little more than a gravelly voiced stoic space marine. Now, you can certainly like gravelly voiced stoic space marines, but that doesn't make them good characters. You can enjoy playing as gravely voiced stoic space marines, but that doesn't make them good characters. You can enjoy inhabiting the world of gravelly voiced stoic space marines, but that doesn't make them good characters.

Ok, you're wrong. I don't think you're giving Chief enough credit. He's not a total husk as you're making him out to be. He does have strong desires and motivations. He has an internal conflict regarding his relationship with Cortana, especially when she's losing her shit. I don't think a character has to say a bazillion lines to be interesting. I think if the character can come across in a certain way without all the detailed explanation than what's wrong with that?

I mean when you take into account his history what's he suppose to be like? Captain America? fuck that shit.

But I'm not going to defend this further. I like Halo, I really enjoy the multiplayer, but I'm not the biggest fan of it's single player. I like it but I'm not a single player fanboi. Can we just agree that Geralt is the best character in video game history?

Quote: It's why I consider this scene to be among the most hauntingly beautiful and deeply tragic in cinema history.

Dude. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2070649/
Watch that shit. Pirate it, get the subtitles and watch it. It's incredibly brilliant and will change your mind about that sentence I just read.
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22-09-2017, 07:03 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2017 07:10 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
(22-09-2017 06:01 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Ok, you're wrong.

No I'm not Mr 'all FPS game actually means just the multiplayer focused ones'.

But if you can explain the Chief's character arc for me, I'm all ears. Maybe he changes post 3, but he's functionally the same at the end of the original trilogy as he was at the start of it. Maybe he eventually reaches the height of mediocrity (not good, just mediocre), but certainly not in the original trilogy.


(22-09-2017 06:01 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Can we just agree that Geralt is the best character in video game history?

No, because he's not The Nameless One.

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22-09-2017, 05:44 PM
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
Quote:No I'm not Mr 'all FPS game actually means just the multiplayer focused ones'.

You took me out of context:
"But in comparison to pretty much all FPS games like Battlefield or CoD or Destiny or whatever he's by far the best"

I was talking about just the multiplayer focused ones.

Quote:No, because he's not The Nameless One.

Who in turn is not Geralt of Rivia and thus not the best character in video game history.
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23-09-2017, 02:06 AM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2017 05:55 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
(22-09-2017 05:44 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:No I'm not Mr 'all FPS game actually means just the multiplayer focused ones'.

You took me out of context:
"But in comparison to pretty much all FPS games like Battlefield or CoD or Destiny or whatever he's by far the best"

I was talking about just the multiplayer focused ones.

An after-the-fact caveat which is also categorical bullshit, on account of how lavish, time consuming, and budget intensive the single player campaigns for those games are. They just spend their time and budget on spectacle, rather than making compelling characters; thus why Master Chief is such a mediocre (at best) protagonist.

Church, Caboose, and the rest of the RvB team, are far superior characters to Chief.

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(22-09-2017 05:44 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:No, because he's not The Nameless One.

Who in turn is not Geralt of Rivia and thus not the best character in video game history.

Still wasn't written by Chris Avellone, and thus still not the best. Who is Chris Avellone you might be asking? Only one of the industry's leading designers and writers, a Black Isle Studio alumni, and a co-founder of Obsidian Entertainment.

His game credits include, but are not limited to...

Fallout 2
Planescape: Torment
Icewind Dale Trilogy
Knight of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Never Winter Nights 2 & Mask of the Betrayer
Alpha Protocol
Fallout: New Vegas
Wasteland 2
Pillars of Eternity
Tyranny
Torment: Tides of Numenera
PREY

Also he had a hand in that Divinity: Original Sin II that you've been gushing over recently. Basically many of the best PC RPG's of all time are under his belt, including more than a few of your personal favorites if memory serves me well.

Chris Avellone was both the lead designer and lead writer on Planescape: Torment, where he created The Nameless One.

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23-09-2017, 05:54 AM
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
Quote:Still wasn't written by Chris Avellone, and thus still not the best. Who is Chris Avellone you might be asking? Only one of the industry's leading designers and writers, a Black Isle Studio alumni, and a co-founder of Obsidian Entertainment.

His game credits include, but are not limited to...

Fallout 2
Planescape: Torment
Icewind Dale Trilogy
Knight of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Never Winter Nights 2 & Mask of the Betrayer
Alpha Protocol
Fallout: New Vegas
Wasteland 2
Pillars of Eternity
Tyranny
Torment: Tides of Numenera
PREY

Also he had a hand in that Divinity: Original Sin II that you've been gushing over recently. Basically many of the best PC RPG's of all time are under his belt, including more than a few of your personal favorites if memory serves me well.

Chris Avellone was both the lead designer and lead writer on Planescape: Torment, where he created The Nameless One.

Alright touche'. I've never actually played Planescape (despite the rave reviews and how everyone says its the best CRPG of all time etc..).
But I can't deny that those games you listed, Icewind series, NWN, KotOR, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Tyranny, Divinity Original Sin 2, are literally like my top 5-6 RPGs of all time.
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23-09-2017, 07:23 PM
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
(22-09-2017 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  See Also: Pixels



That actually helps support my point as Adam Sandler has been actively trying to ruin reality since like 1998 lol

(22-09-2017 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Want me to ruin another one for you?
Ha Ha! No need good sir I'm very familiar with Tom Clancy's : Fuck You Bill of Rights. Jesus that game..... it's a goddamn death squad simulator. Something I want to add to that video though is I think the devs were fully aware of what it looked like. This is why they repeatedly try to trick you into thinking you're the good guy.
They introduce a character that is very anti-government and pro-liberty early on and use him as a smoke screen. "Well even the guy who TOTALLY dislikes the government and is pro personal liberty thinks this is good so it has to be! It's not just government who think so even the patriots do!!!". It's so on the face dishonest and gross.
Then they provide to make every single villain in the game mustache-twirlingly evil. One guy's plan is to indiscriminately burn alive every person they find (though the video does rightly point out that that is basically your plan too). The criminal lady tortures an entire room of dozens of cops to death for fun, and others are willing to kill every single person in New York if they can't have it. The PMC guys go door to door and excite every single civilian that won't support them despite that being not in his established character at all.

It's sickening. Luckily it's also a shit game so I don't miss playing it. It's also the deciding factor in my decision to never buy an Ubisoft game ever again.



(22-09-2017 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Dragon Age II better be on that list! Angry




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Sadly my friend no, not in my top 25. While it has many good qualities it just didn't do much for me though I think it's a good game and was really really not treated well enough by critics. I'm not huge on the decision to largely restrict it to a single location, a lot of the characters were amazing....and a lot of them you could not pay me to care about. I think you can get away an RPG in a set location like that if the city is interesting. Bioshock for example, Rapture IS the main character in that game.


(22-09-2017 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Bungie, much like Bethesda, are amazing world crafters.
See and I just don't feel like Bungie is, and it's probably just different strokes for different folks I think. I find their sci-fi very safe, generic, tropeish, and largely unimaginative. They definitely make good games and have some stellar moments (Halo 1 where you encounter the flood for the first time was a highlight for me) but after I stopped playing Halo I was never really compelled to return to that setting and Destiny is infinitely worse.



(22-09-2017 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  As a Diablo 3 veteran myself, that doesn't bother me at all. After seeing the bullshit that randomization can become when taken to the other extreme (D3's Ancient and Primal legendaries), I am more than okay with that. I want an enjoyable experience that won't kneecap me if I put it down for awhile; I'd rather have an enjoyable game over a second job (See Also - EVE Online).
Having sunk a ton of time into D3 I know exactly what you mean, but I don't want either extreme. My list of Destiny 1 problems just ..didn't include the RNG aspects. If you have no gear upgrades to shoot for the game is done as far as I'm concerned as it's a looter-shooter, the point is to shoot for loot. I just think it's short sighted and a fix for a problem that didn't exist.

To be fair back in my WoW days I had several 1% drop chance mounts so...... lol


(22-09-2017 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Not to be too pedantic (but I totally am), that is the definition of iterative. Tongue
Hahaha you're not wrong! Basically what I mean is you need to either do something new or take what you have and make it better and refine it. Destiny 2 does not do this...at all. It's a total retread in my opinion.


(22-09-2017 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  On the plus side, you no longer need to consult an out-of-game app for story supplements, right?
It's funny you say that because it was those cards where you could get a glimpse of something approaching a great story. It's not there but you can kinda see it's shadow. Instead of building on that potential they...told a generic story full of generic characters doing suitably generic activities but it's full of enough plot holes it looks like my local roads.

(22-09-2017 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The best Horde Mode game is still Killing Floor 2, but I'll let that slide for now. Wink
One of, it's one of the best haha. I need to play more KF2 though now that I think about it .....


(22-09-2017 04:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I'm just interested in trying a loot shooter that is not PAYDAY/The Division/Borderlands to tide me over until Monster Hunter World comes out early next year.
Oh absolutely, I totally get that. I'm sure I'll end up playing it cause the roomie will more than likely buy it even if console FPS is like cancer to me lol

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23-09-2017, 11:44 PM
RE: So.. Destiny 2 huh?
Oh and apparently I have more to bitch about with The Division!

If you take the Dark zone out of the game and apply it to the narrative it's extremely fucking telling. It proves that every government operative that was selected for the program is fucking pants-on-head-retarded and psychopathic. As soon as communication is cut they are all ready to murder each other for a shiny new red dot sight. The implications of the Dark Zone are mind-boggling.

Then the overarching villain, the Division agent that was part of the first wave, is just bug nutty stupid. He's part of a super-secret government plan that trains sleeper agents capable of acting autonomously outside of the established chains of command or the law with little to no support. Little to no support. How does this guy trained to operate without support turn evil? Why he gets in a tight spot and requests support, doesn't get support in a timely fashion, and decided to react by......murdering his support once it does show up.

lolwut?

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