So I came out....
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11-09-2014, 06:17 PM
RE: So I came out....
Quote: But I just wish she would at least consider my argument, I mean after all I did consider religion for 30+ years.


It is possible that you are asking for more than she can give. Some people are so wrapped up in their fairy tales that reality frightens them to death.

Will she look at anything?

http://listverse.com/2014/09/08/10-theor...the-bible/

Quote:From studying the texts themselves, Bible scholars have come up with many theories on who actually wrote the scriptures. These theories provide serious challenges to traditional assumptions on Bible authorship.



http://www.american-buddha.com/falsetestament.htm

Quote:In the last quarter century or so, archaeologists have seen one settled assumption after another concerning who the ancient Israelites were and where they came from proved false. Rather than a band of invaders who fought their way into the Holy Land, the Israelites are now thought to have been an indigenous culture that developed west of the Jordan River around 1200 B.C. Abraham, Isaac, and the other patriarchs appear to have been spliced together out of various pieces of local lore.

101 Myths of the Bible: How Ancient Scribes Invented Biblical History

The Davidic Empire, which archaeologists once thought as incontrovertible as the Roman, is now seen as an invention of Jerusalem-based priests in the seventh and eighth centuries B.C. who were eager to burnish their national history. The religion we call Judaism does not reach well back into the second millennium B.C. but appears to be, at most, a product of the mid-first.


If she won't even consider the possibility that her fairy tales are wrong I don't see much long-term hope. Sooner or later, you will blow your cork.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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11-09-2014, 06:34 PM
RE: So I came out....
Its gotta be a shame to end a relationship just because of different belief. Other than that, welcome to the club Smile
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11-09-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: So I came out....
(11-09-2014 05:38 PM)Silo1180 Wrote:  This! Oh my gosh she cried! And when I told her, "If heaven is real and you go and I don't the bible promises you will feel no pain, so it will be like I never even existed." DO NOT USE THAT ARGUMENT TO MAKE YOUR SPOUSE FEEL BETTER!!! ABORT, ABORT, ABORT!!!

Sounds like you did better than me. The first and only time I had a "debate" with my wife about religious things after I was atheist, she was talking about how the virgin rape laws in Deuteronomy were actually quite progressive at the time. This is something I've been noted to have complained about more than once in this forum.

I called God a "creepy rape apologist". Not really the best approach.
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12-09-2014, 01:07 AM
RE: So I came out....
(09-09-2014 10:56 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  I don't believe in marriage for this very reason.

I believe marriage exists whether or not you believe in it.

As for the OP's wife, it certainly isn't easy. I would absolutely refrain from using insults -- it puts the person on the defensive. Hopefully, with a little luck, she will eventually stumble and find the candle in the dark by herself. If you want, I can link you a few books you could try and convince your wife to read.

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12-09-2014, 09:52 AM
RE: So I came out....
(11-09-2014 05:38 PM)Silo1180 Wrote:  This! Oh my gosh she cried! And when I told her, "If heaven is real and you go and I don't the bible promises you will feel no pain, so it will be like I never even existed." DO NOT USE THAT ARGUMENT TO MAKE YOUR SPOUSE FEEL BETTER!!! ABORT, ABORT, ABORT!!!

Too true! Especially since some Christians believe that you can see Hell from Heaven. In Luke 16:14-31, the story of Lazarus and the Dives is told. Lazarus, who was poor went to Heaven and Dives, the rich man went to Hell. The two places were close enough that Dives could talk to Abraham and request him to send Lazarus to Hell with a drop of water on his finger to ease his (Dives') thirst (it was refused)!

So, even though your wife can see you writhe in the flames of Hell she will still feel no pain in Heaven. I can see why that particular argument did not go over very well.

Keep your chin up, my friend.

Doc
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12-09-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: So I came out....
(09-09-2014 09:29 AM)Silo1180 Wrote:  to my wife and admitted to her openly that I am an Atheist. We had an argument, she accused me (falsely) of some things and I just blew up. Told her she had no idea who I really was anymore. We've been married for almost 18 years now, there have been some changes. So, she admitted I was right and we said some stuff we'd been holding in and I told her. I felt so relieved... but it's gone about as well as I expected. Now I'm a liar, she wanted to marry a "Christian" man and blah, blah, blah.

We've had a lot of conversations about it since then, but I can't argue with her without using terms like stupid, illogical, blind. I can't believe she won't even listen to reason.

I've accepted that I'm not going to convert her, and I try to avoid the conversation, but she won't drop it now. I need to be able to talk to her about this in a manner that is not only informative, but not hurtful.

Any pointers, any good reads any one can recommend?


I am very sorry to hear your problem. I if i can give you an advice try not bring the subject up and when she does play it safe and don't attack her beliefs untill she is ready to have a meaningfull conversation. Then try to make her understand how you feel. Make her read a book, daniel dennet and sam harris books are easier to read by a theist since christopher hitchens and richard dawkins are more aggressive in their arguments. Just don't force things, there is no need to convert her just made her more tolerant and open minded! I hope i helped you Smile
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12-09-2014, 12:20 PM
So I came out....
(11-09-2014 05:38 PM)Silo1180 Wrote:  
(11-09-2014 08:40 AM)Nurse Wrote:  Diedre, at this point I am willing to compromise because I love my husband. I want stability for our son. He married a Christian with lots of skepticism, not an atheist. I'm trying to show him I'm still me but without god. Part of the compromise comes from the religious spouse in that they are in love with someone they believe may go to hell. Yes, I walk on eggshells. Yes, it's hard. But I prefer it to the alternative of losing him. I would never enter an "unequally yoked" relationship because of the headaches, but now I'm in one. I compromise because I'm the one who changed.

This! Oh my gosh she cried! And when I told her, "If heaven is real and you go and I don't the bible promises you will feel no pain, so it will be like I never even existed." DO NOT USE THAT ARGUMENT TO MAKE YOUR SPOUSE FEEL BETTER!!! ABORT, ABORT, ABORT!!!

I thought you agreed the best policy at this time was to leave the subject be for the moment. Being right or wrong about this is not important. If you love this person keep that at the forefront of your mind at all times.

You do love this person, right? This wasn't an arranged marriage?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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12-09-2014, 03:06 PM
RE: So I came out....
(09-09-2014 09:29 AM)Silo1180 Wrote:  to my wife and admitted to her openly that I am an Atheist. We had an argument, she accused me (falsely) of some things and I just blew up. Told her she had no idea who I really was anymore. We've been married for almost 18 years now, there have been some changes. So, she admitted I was right and we said some stuff we'd been holding in and I told her. I felt so relieved... but it's gone about as well as I expected. Now I'm a liar, she wanted to marry a "Christian" man and blah, blah, blah.

We've had a lot of conversations about it since then, but I can't argue with her without using terms like stupid, illogical, blind. I can't believe she won't even listen to reason.

I've accepted that I'm not going to convert her, and I try to avoid the conversation, but she won't drop it now. I need to be able to talk to her about this in a manner that is not only informative, but not hurtful.

Any pointers, any good reads any one can recommend?

Well first off, this belongs in the advice threads.

Secondly, if she only married you because of your religion, she never loved you to begin with.

You need to remind her that your religion is not who you are. The person you are and the thinks that you think inside of your head are not the same and do not dictate what makes you the person you are.

If she truly loves you for the man you are/were or the events that happened in the beginning. You need to remind her that you being an atheist does not change the character of the man she "supposedly" fell in love with.

As long as your still the same old bastard she fell in love with by the character of your personality. Than I am sure she will give up the argument.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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12-09-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: So I came out....
If you both still love each other, then it would be best not to talk about it. But as Robby said, and with ANY disagreement, never name call and never hold grudges. Don't bring up the past, and stay calm. If you feel your emotions rising, that is the moment you leave it alone. Outside that issue if you already do other things for each other, keep showing those acts and always let her know you love her.

You can agree to leave that subject alone. Conflict resolution on any issue is important and knowing how to have a disagreement on any subject allows each of you to have your emotions and listen and know when to let it go if need be.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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12-09-2014, 07:42 PM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2014 08:48 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: So I came out....
I can't really relate 'cause everyone knew I was atheist prior to my wedding a good Catholic girl some 30 years ago now. ManlyGirl, her family, my family, her friends, my friends, the Catholic Church, everybody. I promised the Catholic Church I would not interfere with the Catholic "upbringing" of any children so we could be married in a Catholic Church in front of a Priest. I kept my promise. I did not promise not to teach them basic reasoning skills. They all turned out to be fine young adult heathens on their own 'cause they ain't stupid. ... Warms me cockles.

ManlyGirl believes in a postmortem preservation of identity and I don't. So fucking what. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China? Never been an issue for us.

(11-09-2014 08:08 AM)Silo1180 Wrote:  I'm fine with not discussing it, but it's going to come up at Thanksgiving, since her granddad died, I am the oldest adult male and will be asked to lead the family in prayer... awkward!

There are plenty of secular "prayers" to choose from. I personally wouldn't have a problem with offering a "Thank God for providing the food we are about to eat." because I'm both the cook and God.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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