So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
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01-11-2013, 09:32 PM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(01-11-2013 07:19 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 06:00 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Impossible; what you see as lack of proof is faith that there is a lack of proof. No matter how you spin it, there is always faith involved.

Not quite faith. Semantics again. Rolleyes

I see no evidence, therefore I lack faith that there is a god. You are correct, I identify (if we have to use labels) as atheistic agnostic.

faith (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

As far as atheism goes, it is simply a lack of faith. Ergo.......not faith.

You are confident in your lack of belief, which is a different thing than faith. Ergo, you have faith in a lack of God.
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01-11-2013, 10:06 PM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
So, what happened to the wonderful discussion about Abortion that Dom was clearly winning?

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01-11-2013, 10:11 PM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(01-11-2013 10:06 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  So, what happened to the wonderful discussion about Abortion that Dom was clearly winning?

T cubed ran from it with his fingers in his ears.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-11-2013, 11:23 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2013 12:16 AM by evenheathen.)
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(01-11-2013 09:32 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 07:19 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Not quite faith. Semantics again. Rolleyes

I see no evidence, therefore I lack faith that there is a god. You are correct, I identify (if we have to use labels) as atheistic agnostic.

faith (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

As far as atheism goes, it is simply a lack of faith. Ergo.......not faith.

You are confident in your lack of belief, which is a different thing than faith. Ergo, you have faith in a lack of God.

Who said I was confident? I only expressed a lack. Faith is an ambiguous term that does not apply to my understanding of god.

Faith requires confidence. My deconversion is exactly the opposite of confidence in a belief of god. You seem to be very openminded. I like to fancy myself as the same. I don't know how much you've rooted around here but I've told my story a number of times, and it resonates with a lot of folks around here. My lack of confidence in a god who would carry any significance towards me or my existence comes from a sincere and frugal investigation into the very heart of the matter. I existed in the faith for all of my (as far as I can remember) life until I really, and honestly took it seriously.

I envy you and your cavalier attitude towards faith. It must make it easy. Spiritual but not religious. You get to define the universe that way.

I'm sorry but I can't anymore. I need to know. And if the culmination of the evidence that I have observed thus far in my life leads me to......a lack of confidence in the existence of any being or force that gives one shit about me or any one of the billions of "me's" that has existed in the history of this planet, then I think that I do get the privilege of providing my own meaning to my life. If this "god" don't give a fuck, then I choose to, because it's my insignificant life, not his.

But after all of my consideration, it doesn't matter. If he exists, he doesn't care about me or you. So we need to be one step better, one step ahead of god, and care for each other, because we know that we're not special in the eyes of the universe.

I like it that you're out there, trying to spread a bigger meaning. But let's have some give and take, not an all out "I'm right and you should know it" battle. It's been done too many times before. Do we not both look at our universe with the same awe and reverence?

When do we understand each other?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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02-11-2013, 03:17 AM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(26-10-2013 08:53 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Ok that sounded a bit insensitive...

Sorry about that.

But it's truth!

No, it's your opinion. Furthermore, as far as I'm concerned, this is not a pro life vs pro choice thread. You have no reason to push your opinions.

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02-11-2013, 06:47 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2013 06:51 AM by The_Thinking_Theist.)
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(01-11-2013 11:23 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 09:32 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You are confident in your lack of belief, which is a different thing than faith. Ergo, you have faith in a lack of God.

Who said I was confident? I only expressed a lack. Faith is an ambiguous term that does not apply to my understanding of god.

Faith requires confidence. My deconversion is exactly the opposite of confidence in a belief of god. You seem to be very openminded. I like to fancy myself as the same. I don't know how much you've rooted around here but I've told my story a number of times, and it resonates with a lot of folks around here. My lack of confidence in a god who would carry any significance towards me or my existence comes from a sincere and frugal investigation into the very heart of the matter. I existed in the faith for all of my (as far as I can remember) life until I really, and honestly took it seriously.

I envy you and your cavalier attitude towards faith. It must make it easy. Spiritual but not religious. You get to define the universe that way.

I'm sorry but I can't anymore. I need to know. And if the culmination of the evidence that I have observed thus far in my life leads me to......a lack of confidence in the existence of any being or force that gives one shit about me or any one of the billions of "me's" that has existed in the history of this planet, then I think that I do get the privilege of providing my own meaning to my life. If this "god" don't give a fuck, then I choose to, because it's my insignificant life, not his.

But after all of my consideration, it doesn't matter. If he exists, he doesn't care about me or you. So we need to be one step better, one step ahead of god, and care for each other, because we know that we're not special in the eyes of the universe.

I like it that you're out there, trying to spread a bigger meaning. But let's have some give and take, not an all out "I'm right and you should know it" battle. It's been done too many times before. Do we not both look at our universe with the same awe and reverence?

When do we understand each other?

That is the most beautiful thing I've EVER heard!
Weeping

But still, about that abortion thing... we can argue over trimesters and brain development, but if there's a thing in a woman that grows into a dude... let's give it some chance.
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02-11-2013, 07:00 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2013 07:16 AM by Dom.)
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(01-11-2013 05:48 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I mean: yes, all he said was fact but there is more to truth than facts.

I'm not a "he", I am a "she".

Elsewhere in this thread you said:

Quote:The_Thinking_Theist Wrote: This is making me sick just having to actually debate the truth of it.

Then it was truth, but now facts are not truth? I think you are confused and can't absorb the facts because they are so obviously true that it shakes your belief. You know, you can just concede that a fetus becomes a person when it develops a central nervous system and brain and can feel pain. You can still be pro life - you just start to apply your belief a little later in development.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-11-2013, 07:18 AM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(02-11-2013 07:00 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 05:48 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I mean: yes, all he said was fact but there is more to truth than facts.

I'm not a "he", I am a "she".

Elsewhere in this thread you said:

Quote:The_Thinking_Theist Wrote: This is making me sick just having to actually debate the truth of it.

Then it was truth, but now facts are not truth? I think you are confused and can't absorb the facts because they are so obviously true that it shakes your belief.

I know you're a she, I thought morondog said all that. Sorry!

Errrr..... could you explicate that second paragraph because I find your smarty-pants languages confusing. Blush
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02-11-2013, 08:16 AM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(02-11-2013 07:18 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 07:00 AM)Dom Wrote:  I'm not a "he", I am a "she".

Elsewhere in this thread you said:


Then it was truth, but now facts are not truth? I think you are confused and can't absorb the facts because they are so obviously true that it shakes your belief.

I know you're a she, I thought morondog said all that. Sorry!

Errrr..... could you explicate that second paragraph because I find your smarty-pants languages confusing. Blush

Hah, would that be because you are confused about the difference between truth and facts?

Tell me how you define truth versus fact, and we'll be able to talk with common ground.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-11-2013, 08:27 AM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(02-11-2013 08:16 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 07:18 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I know you're a she, I thought morondog said all that. Sorry!

Errrr..... could you explicate that second paragraph because I find your smarty-pants languages confusing. Blush

Hah, would that be because you are confused about the difference between truth and facts?

Tell me how you define truth versus fact, and we'll be able to talk with common ground.

Facts are part of a truth, with the other part being faith in the facts as truth.
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