So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
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02-11-2013, 09:57 PM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(02-11-2013 09:50 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 09:49 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The difference is higher brain function, before the third trimester the fetus does not have a brain or CNS so by definition has no higher brain function. Plus as you agreed earlier No brain activity = Dead and if you are Dead you are by definition not Alive Q.E.D.

You didn't answer my concerns... I mean don't say "It's not a baby it's a clump of cells" because it's always a clump of cells at any stage of life.

It's not a baby because it has no brain. until it has a brain and a CNS it is no different than a tumor or any other clump of cells.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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03-11-2013, 08:30 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 09:32 AM by The_Thinking_Theist.)
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(02-11-2013 09:57 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 09:50 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  You didn't answer my concerns... I mean don't say "It's not a baby it's a clump of cells" because it's always a clump of cells at any stage of life.

It's not a baby because it has no brain. until it has a brain and a CNS it is no different than a tumor or any other clump of cells.

So if a baby was born and needed a hemispheredectomy because of a seizure problem, he'd be half a baby for having half a CNS?
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03-11-2013, 08:42 AM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(03-11-2013 08:30 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 09:57 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It's not a baby because it has no brain. until it has a brain and a CNS it is no different than a tumor or any other clump of cells.

So if a baby was born and needed a hemispheredectomy because of a seizure problem, he'd be half a baby for having half a CNS?

Well that is the second stupidest thing you have posted in this thread (right after that wiki that you didn't bother to read before using it as an argument). First off the child still has an entire CNS and generally that kind of surgery is not done until 2-3 years old. No one has made an argument that a 3 year old is not alive so nice strawman there. Please define how something you have admitted as being the indicator of the threshold of "Alive" should not be used here?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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03-11-2013, 09:06 AM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(03-11-2013 08:42 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 08:30 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  So if a baby was born and needed a hemispheredectomy because of a seizure problem, he'd be half a baby for having half a CNS?

Well that is the second stupidest thing you have posted in this thread (right after that wiki that you didn't bother to read before using it as an argument). First off the child still has an entire CNS and generally that kind of surgery is not done until 2-3 years old. No one has made an argument that a 3 year old is not alive so nice strawman there. Please define how something you have admitted as being the indicator of the threshold of "Alive" should not be used here?

(Hey, I read that wiki)



Doesn't matter. Say the kid's 13 years old. Removes the half-brain. Is he half a kid now?

And, as you pointed out, there's more to the CNS than the brain. Even that doesn't matter, is he 11/12 a kid now? Your argument of lack of a CNS == Dead is false because there are living functioning people who lack more or less than half of their brain.
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03-11-2013, 09:39 AM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(03-11-2013 09:06 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 08:42 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Well that is the second stupidest thing you have posted in this thread (right after that wiki that you didn't bother to read before using it as an argument). First off the child still has an entire CNS and generally that kind of surgery is not done until 2-3 years old. No one has made an argument that a 3 year old is not alive so nice strawman there. Please define how something you have admitted as being the indicator of the threshold of "Alive" should not be used here?

(Hey, I read that wiki)



Doesn't matter. Say the kid's 13 years old. Removes the half-brain. Is he half a kid now?

And, as you pointed out, there's more to the CNS than the brain. Even that doesn't matter, is he 11/12 a kid now? Your argument of lack of a CNS == Dead is false because there are living functioning people who lack more or less than half of their brain.

Show me one that has 0% of a brain and is alive. That is your argument. My argument is that until the CNS develops there is no brain function at all. Oh and since you are persisting in using this strawman when half of the brain is removed, the half remaining compensates by reproducing the functions of the missing hemisphere. There is no conflict between what I said Brain function = alive and any of the points you raise. However there is still a major conflict between your stance that no brain function equals dead but cells with no CNS are "alive".

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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03-11-2013, 10:12 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 10:15 AM by The_Thinking_Theist.)
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(03-11-2013 09:39 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 09:06 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  (Hey, I read that wiki)



Doesn't matter. Say the kid's 13 years old. Removes the half-brain. Is he half a kid now?

And, as you pointed out, there's more to the CNS than the brain. Even that doesn't matter, is he 11/12 a kid now? Your argument of lack of a CNS == Dead is false because there are living functioning people who lack more or less than half of their brain.

Show me one that has 0% of a brain and is alive. That is your argument. My argument is that until the CNS develops there is no brain function at all. Oh and since you are persisting in using this strawman when half of the brain is removed, the half remaining compensates by reproducing the functions of the missing hemisphere. There is no conflict between what I said Brain function = alive and any of the points you raise. However there is still a major conflict between your stance that no brain function equals dead but cells with no CNS are "alive".

Hmmm...

*looks up strawman*

[Image: angry-no-l.png]

It's not a strawman. And, if I recall, we're talking biologically right? Your statement actually proves my point.
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03-11-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(02-11-2013 09:28 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 08:53 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Whose suffering?

The future mother's?

If you are open to reasoning, please take some time to see this...




I meant the suffering of the whole human race.

Please describe how millions of unwanted pregnancies and babies decreases human suffering. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-11-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(03-11-2013 10:12 AM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 09:39 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Show me one that has 0% of a brain and is alive. That is your argument. My argument is that until the CNS develops there is no brain function at all. Oh and since you are persisting in using this strawman when half of the brain is removed, the half remaining compensates by reproducing the functions of the missing hemisphere. There is no conflict between what I said Brain function = alive and any of the points you raise. However there is still a major conflict between your stance that no brain function equals dead but cells with no CNS are "alive".

It's not a strawman. And, if I recall, we're talking biologically right? Your statement actually proves my point.

In what way? You still have not answered my question.

Quote: The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

I'd say that fairly represents this latest tangent. Your claiming that Us saying that Brain Function and CNS is the begining of being alive = A person with a Hemispherectomy is Half a person. That would be a strawman.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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03-11-2013, 02:43 PM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(03-11-2013 02:15 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I'd say that fairly represents this latest tangent. Your claiming that Us saying that Brain Function and CNS is the begining of being alive = A person with a Hemispherectomy is Half a person. That would be a strawman.

Well, that's the conjecture that is drawn from your statement.
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03-11-2013, 02:45 PM
RE: So. I had a presentation about Abortion at school.
(03-11-2013 11:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 09:28 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I meant the suffering of the whole human race.

Please describe how millions of unwanted pregnancies and babies decreases human suffering. Drinking Beverage

QUIT IT WITH THE F*%&ING COFFEE!!!


Lol


Anyway, it decreases suffering because instead of millions of unwanted pregnancies, we'd have millions of dead kids.
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