So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
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19-11-2013, 06:07 PM
RE: So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
(19-11-2013 06:53 PM)Lawls Wrote:  Is this really the best they could give? No

What more do you want? They only make like something like $23 million per year, and making shit up apologetics takes money... Undecided

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19-11-2013, 06:07 PM
RE: So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
Seems to be.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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19-11-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
@Lawls--About number 1 there, I can't quite recall a prophecy about the world ending within Jesus's generation. It sounds vaguely familiar but I'm not 100% sure. Do you remember which book he said it in? I'd like to look it up for curiosity's sake.

Anyhow, #4 is the good old stand-by. I can't understand that circle logic at all.

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19-11-2013, 06:53 PM
So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
I've been hearing so much about this site, and from what I've heard, these are some of Christianity's best arguments. But when I went and actually red them, they go as follows.

1. The Bible fulfills it's prophecies (it then lists some text from the Bible which have been refuted as not being prophecies, or even contradictory to later events) not to mention Jesus's failed prophecy about the end of the world happening before his generation died.

2. Nature is so complex it demands a designer. Usually when Christians are proven wrong about their creation myth, they like to switch to a Deist viewpoint to argue from there, leaving their christian viewpoint for a different one, this just shows that their views are too primitive and they need to change them to put up a good argument, not to mention that the universe is poorly "designed" if God was going to focus on one little planet, why all the near infinite wasted space and destructive forces? (black holes, supernovas, asteroid impacts).

3. The writers of the Gospels saw the resurrection of Jesus, since the oldest gospel is dated at 30 years after Jesus's death, and the average life expectancy at the time was 20-30 years, it's unlikely the writer ever was an eye-wittness. Mark (the oldest gospel) also has various additions done at even later dates than the original version, including the ending and the resurrection story, which was added later by another author.

4. The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true, I don't think I need to explain this one.


Is this really the best they could give? No
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19-11-2013, 06:55 PM
RE: So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
(19-11-2013 06:10 PM)Cephalotus Wrote:  @Lawls--About number 1 there, I can't quite recall a prophecy about the world ending within Jesus's generation. It sounds vaguely familiar but I'm not 100% sure. Do you remember which book he said it in? I'd like to look it up for curiosity's sake.

Anyhow, #4 is the good old stand-by. I can't understand that circle logic at all.
Matthew 24:29-35,Matthew 16:28,Mark 13:30-31,Mark 9:1,Luke 9:27
Luke 21:25-33m, Matthew 10:23
I don't know if I missed any.
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20-11-2013, 12:17 AM
RE: So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
(19-11-2013 06:53 PM)Lawls Wrote:  I've been hearing so much about this site, and from what I've heard, these are some of Christianity's best arguments.

AiG isn't considered to the be amongst the best progenitors of Christian apologetics by the wider Christian community. AiG are Evangelical YECs and most of their focus is on promoting creationism and biblical literalism. Their apologetic approach is essentially to try and demonstrate that The Book Genesis is a historical document. Their position is that if they succeed in that goal the rest will fall into place. That is a very peculiar approach to apologetics that well-known Evangelical apologists such as WLC don't accept.
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20-11-2013, 12:59 AM
RE: So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
(20-11-2013 12:17 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 06:53 PM)Lawls Wrote:  I've been hearing so much about this site, and from what I've heard, these are some of Christianity's best arguments.

AiG isn't considered to the be amongst the best progenitors of Christian apologetics by the wider Christian community. AiG are Evangelical YECs and most of their focus is on promoting creationism and biblical literalism. Their apologetic approach is essentially to try and demonstrate that The Book Genesis is a historical document. Their position is that if they succeed in that goal the rest will fall into place. That is a very peculiar approach to apologetics that well-known Evangelical apologists such as WLC don't accept.


Yep, good old WLC relies on his 'self authenticating sense of the holy spirit' to validate everything he agrees with... Drinking Beverage

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20-11-2013, 11:25 AM
RE: So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
(19-11-2013 06:53 PM)Lawls Wrote:  1. The Bible fulfills it's prophecies (it then lists some text from the Bible which have been refuted as not being prophecies, or even contradictory to later events) not to mention Jesus's failed prophecy about the end of the world happening before his generation died.
You would be surprised to see how much effort people will put into making failed prophecies be true. I've talked to a few people who insist every prophecy is true. They will jump through a lot of hoops to tell you what cities and what fishing villages actually had what names during these times so that the prophecy that a city will fall by a certain date won't be rendered invalid.


(19-11-2013 06:53 PM)Lawls Wrote:  2. Nature is so complex it demands a designer. Usually when Christians are proven wrong about their creation myth, they like to switch to a Deist viewpoint to argue from there, leaving their christian viewpoint for a different one, this just shows that their views are too primitive and they need to change them to put up a good argument, not to mention that the universe is poorly "designed" if God was going to focus on one little planet, why all the near infinite wasted space and destructive forces? (black holes, supernovas, asteroid impacts).
Yeah, that's always a bad argument. It's the whole watchmaker argument. We've watched watches (heh) be made. We've never watched a universe be made.


(19-11-2013 06:53 PM)Lawls Wrote:  3. The writers of the Gospels saw the resurrection of Jesus, since the oldest gospel is dated at 30 years after Jesus's death, and the average life expectancy at the time was 20-30 years, it's unlikely the writer ever was an eye-wittness. Mark (the oldest gospel) also has various additions done at even later dates than the original version, including the ending and the resurrection story, which was added later by another author.
Actually, I think life expectancies weren't that short back then, but there's still no evidence that Mark actually met Jesus. Given the huge amount of things he got historically wrong (that were later corrected by Matthew and Luke), it's likely he just had no fucking idea what he was talking about. He was likely trying to create a myth about a man who was previously supposed to be entirely spiritual.


(19-11-2013 06:53 PM)Lawls Wrote:  4. The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true, I don't think I need to explain this one.
Yeah, that one is just lazy.
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20-11-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
(19-11-2013 06:07 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 06:53 PM)Lawls Wrote:  Is this really the best they could give? No

What more do you want? They only make like something like $23 million per year, and making shit up apologetics takes money... Undecided

1. The page's context is basics on creation/evolution, not a comprehensive apologetic about God or the love of Jesus Christ.

2. Why did you read it? Aren't you sure about your belief system?
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20-11-2013, 02:22 PM
RE: So, I just read Answers in Genesis's "how do we know there is a God?
(20-11-2013 02:17 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  2. Why did you read it? Aren't you sure about your belief system?

PleaseJesus wins. Looks like Christianity is real, folks.

Seriously, PJ. Perhaps he was there the same reason you are here. You are like some unaware self parody.
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