So I recently became an atheist
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-07-2015, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2015 12:22 PM by Commonsensei.)
RE: So I recently became an atheist
(14-07-2015 03:08 PM)Nabalar Wrote:  Was Jesus Christ real? I've read that some people say he was, others say he wasn't. John was the only apostle of his who wrote a Bible, and John saw Jesus' divinity first hand. That is what is claimed. But I want to know where these stories came from? If Jesus was real, what did those people see when he was performing miracles? What did John see? And if everything of Jesus was fabricated, why was it fabricated? What was the purpose?

These questions still linger on in my head. Thank you to those that can help answer them for me.

I don't know. I too have heard both sides of the argument. And I will probably never know for sure. I looking more into it but the strong arguments from both sides keep me stuck in the middle.

Here is what I do know.

The "legend" began in a time and place of a lot of misinformation, illiteracy, and superstation. Most tales that where passed around at the time where all threw verbal story telling.

Tales that was eventually written by Homer such as the Odyssey, and the Iliad we verbal tales as well. Locations where added to the stories depending on the city you lived near, or in. Maybe a favorite god would show up in the story to help or hurt the heroes.

We can see this take place today just look on-line. YouTubers will often give an option on an event that happened that they've read. Exaggerating a point they feel strong about, or to defend a stance they have. Someone enjoys it and ether makes their own video talking about that video, or using the information they've gain from the previous video. Another person may see this new video and reiterate it to a friend or coworker. They're creating stories about these events. Highlighting pointst that like in a show, or video. And leaving out details that may have been important.

Just like the game you may have played as a kid Telephone. You start with a phrase at one end, pass it threw a number of kids and see what was said by the end. Sometimes it's way off. Other times is just shorter versions of the original tale lacking the true details.

The Jesus tale wasn't written down till ruffle 40 years after his supposed death. That's 40 years of the game Telephone. Plot points be exaggerated, other stories getting mixed in, with no ability to fact check. And in a time and place where if you made it to 40 you were consider elderly. People that would or might clam to be a witness, wouldn't hold up.

Also you may have to take into consideration how easily people can be fooled. Entirely "new" religions are built all the time around it. Look at L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology, look at John Smith and Mormonism, look at any number of Cult leaders and how they get people to believe they are in some way Devine. (Heaven's Gate, Helter Skelter, James Town are suggestions)

Or just ask a Pre-teen girl that's a fan of Justin Beiber. They'll come up with excuses why he's a giant douche, "Oh he's just heart broken over Salina Gomez." "Oh, you don't know him. He's going threw a lot of stress lately."

With these going on around me. It's not hard to think that a seed may have been planted. Some guy back then had a cult following, and his tale was exaggerated greatly as the years went on.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Commonsensei's post
16-07-2015, 12:53 PM
RE: So I recently became an atheist
(14-07-2015 03:08 PM)Nabalar Wrote:  Hey everyone. Things about religion never made sense to me. So a few of my friends who were atheist began introducing me to people like AronRa, The Thinking Atheist, etc. Boy, was my mind completely fed with information from these channels. It was wonderful. It helped make my belief in atheism that much stronger.

There was one thing though that I could never find out the answer to, and it still lingers in my head to this day.

Was Jesus Christ real? I've read that some people say he was, others say he wasn't. John was the only apostle of his who wrote a Bible, and John saw Jesus' divinity first hand. That is what is claimed. But I want to know where these stories came from? If Jesus was real, what did those people see when he was performing miracles? What did John see? And if everything of Jesus was fabricated, why was it fabricated? What was the purpose?

These questions still linger on in my head. Thank you to those that can help answer them for me.

I don't think anyone other than a very ignorant person imagines that Jesus didn't exist at all. Assuming he wasn't divine, or the messiah, and just some sort of rambling Jewish teacher, what are the possibilities here?

Perhaps he was bipolar, and truly imagined that he was on a special mission from God, charismatic, and captivating to those disenfranchised poor and oppressed jews under Roman rule. There seemed to be suggestions that his own family even thought he might be a little insane. He went around preaching about the Kingdom of God, how the order of the world is soon to reversed, in favor of the weak, and the poor, gathering a moderate following in the process. He agitated the religious and political establishment to the point where he got strung up for it, in a humiliating and unexpected defeat.

A handful of his disillusioned followers in the awake of this, began to believe they saw him risen, having heard him and communed with him, perhaps as some hallucination, perhaps in some spiritual sense, that they believed was real, and took this as Jesus being triumphant over death, and that the Kingdom that he promised is yet to come.

His early followers went around retelling his messages, and parables, his teachings, often adding some stories of their own, and acquiring other legendary elements along the way, which eventually got penned into a variety of accounts 30-40years later.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-07-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: So I recently became an atheist
So Richard Carrier and Robert M. Price are "very ignorant"?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-07-2015, 02:12 PM
RE: So I recently became an atheist
(16-07-2015 01:45 PM)Iñigo Wrote:  So Richard Carrier and Robert M. Price are "very ignorant"?

Judging that Carrier consider himself to be a philosopher on par with Hume and Aristotle, while that might not make him ignorant, that does make him deluded. He's currently teachings folks over webinar for "Partners for Secular Activism", and classifies himself as more of a social activist, and blogger than anything else.

And Robert Price is a professor at a diploma pill, an unaccredited theological seminary, that peddles the Prosperity Gospel, his credentials are on par with Kent Hovind. The only reason anyone even knows about him, is the fame he derived from peddling the Jesus myth.

These two are the cream of crop, and are still as bottom of barrel as you can get. Creationist tend to have more credible individuals in their camp, than mythicist due. So if all creationist are ignorant, by that same measure so are all mythicist. The only reason any seemingly sensible atheists buys their tripe, is because they tend to so enamored by their anti-religious sentiments that can't smell the garbage in their own camp.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: