So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
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12-06-2012, 10:05 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 10:01 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  There ain't no "beyond hypocrisy." How you supposed to know another man's shoes don't fit, ya don't go for a stroll in 'em?

No matter how many steps you take in another man's shoes, condemning what you others do while doing it yourself is hypocrisy. Granted, I don't know if Mark condemns the religious that condemn others, so I may have jumped the gun on that one. If so, sorry.

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12-06-2012, 10:06 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
I don't understand the anti-gay thing even when people use the bible to condemn it. Isn't that what they think god does? If god is going to punish them after they die, why punish them while they are alive?

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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12-06-2012, 10:10 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
You may come down hard on Mark, but I think you are overdoing it. You know that many of us feel that religion is toxic, that we consider it child abuse to indoctrinate them, that people with beliefs like yours are delusional.

Your "Road to Damascus" experience is quite explainable in psychological and evolutionary terms. The experience itself is in no way a proof of God's existence. You have chosen to construct an edifice of Biblical/theological justification for your feeling, but many of us just shake our heads sadly at your colossal waste of time and effort.

I certainly think your time could be spent far more constructively, like teaching ESL classes or other useful pursuits.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-06-2012, 10:14 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 10:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  You may come down hard on Mark, but I think you are overdoing it. You know that many of us feel that religion is toxic, that we consider it child abuse to indoctrinate them, that people with beliefs like yours are delusional.

Your "Road to Damascus" experience is quite explainable in psychological and evolutionary terms. The experience itself is in no way a proof of God's existence. You have chosen to construct an edifice of Biblical/theological justification for your feeling, but many of us just shake our heads sadly at your colossal waste of time and effort.

I certainly think your time could be spent far more constructively, like teaching ESL classes or other useful pursuits.

I do teach an ESL.

I just don't understand why it's okay to condemn the religious and then get all uppity when your chosen belief gets attacked or suppressed.

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12-06-2012, 10:15 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
Ditto to Chas.
Don't confuse our acceptance of you has a fun dude as meaning we accept what you believe and how you choose to share those insane beliefs with other people.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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12-06-2012, 10:35 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
What HoC said. He can't possibly be worse than whatever alternative teacher they get Big Grin In fact, probably a lot better. If it comes down to a choice of which Baptist is teaching what to people, at least one who's less crazy than the rest of them is a good idea. One who likes atheists and science and doesn't like YECs is almost too much to hope for. KC is practically unique, which is why his silly pastor is so reluctant to let him at the flock in the first place Tongue
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12-06-2012, 10:36 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 10:15 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Ditto to Chas.
Don't confuse our acceptance of you has a fun dude as meaning we accept what you believe and how you choose to share those insane beliefs with other people.

I'm aware of that.

But, in the same way that I accept this site as a way for atheists to learn and congregate, you should do that same for my church.

This site doesn't shove atheism down my throat - I choose to be here. You accept and welcome me here. The same for my church if one of you came.

I am teaching Christianity in a Christian church and telling atheists about it because I am a member of the community. I'm not asking that you accept what I'm teaching for your personal belief.

It is no different from you teaching atheism to atheists. You're not asking me to believe what you believe; however, I have no right to condemn what you're doing since your audience is as you and what you teach.

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12-06-2012, 10:46 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 10:36 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-06-2012 10:15 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Ditto to Chas.
Don't confuse our acceptance of you has a fun dude as meaning we accept what you believe and how you choose to share those insane beliefs with other people.

I'm aware of that.

But, in the same way that I accept this site as a way for atheists to learn and congregate, you should do that same for my church.

This site doesn't shove atheism down my throat - I choose to be here. You accept and welcome me here. The same for my church if one of you came.

I am teaching Christianity in a Christian church and telling atheists about it because I am a member of the community. I'm not asking that you accept what I'm teaching for your personal belief.

It is no different from you teaching atheism to atheists. You're not asking me to believe what you believe; however, I have no right to condemn what you're doing since your audience is as you and what you teach.
You are teaching Christianity in a Christian church and coming to an atheist forum to share your excitement and expecting us to say, "Bully for you!" There is no hypocrisy here. You know this is an environment that is hostile to your religion. If you were in a religiously neutral or even agnostic forum, then you can cry over the harsh treatment. Obviously I can't speak for a community of atheists, but I don't think the majority of us think what you're doing is a good thing when it means propagating a worldview we consider delusional at best and insidiously dangerous at worst. Your analogy of an atheist teaching atheism of atheists falls short. For one thing, for the most part atheists are not organized. More importantly, what if you were teaching a class on how to cook babies? While we joke about the topic, if you were doing it for real, we wouldn't say, "Awwww...look how cute KC is, teaching his little Sunday School class on cooking babies. We support your right to do so!" Wrong...what you're teaching is just as silly and I do not admire the effort.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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12-06-2012, 10:52 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 10:14 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-06-2012 10:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  You may come down hard on Mark, but I think you are overdoing it. You know that many of us feel that religion is toxic, that we consider it child abuse to indoctrinate them, that people with beliefs like yours are delusional.

Your "Road to Damascus" experience is quite explainable in psychological and evolutionary terms. The experience itself is in no way a proof of God's existence. You have chosen to construct an edifice of Biblical/theological justification for your feeling, but many of us just shake our heads sadly at your colossal waste of time and effort.

I certainly think your time could be spent far more constructively, like teaching ESL classes or other useful pursuits.

I do teach an ESL.

I just don't understand why it's okay to condemn the religious and then get all uppity when your chosen belief gets attacked or suppressed.
I don't know what you are referring to. Who's being attacked or suppressed?

My only chosen 'belief' is the belief in evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-06-2012, 10:58 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
I agree with Eroxami for the most part. I am not a fan of propagating religion, but that does not mean I am not interested in how it does so. I respect you as a person, but I do not respect the beliefs themselves, I have told my wife this before and she seems incapable of accepting this fact. Some people attach their beliefs to themselves and take offense when their beliefs are attacked as if they themselves are being attacked.

It should also be said that atheists teaching atheists would be quite absurd. It would be someone standing up in front of a bunch of people and saying "there is a lack of evidence to suggest god exists, so I don't believe" and that would be the entire class. Atheists may choose to use science as a tool for understanding the universe and the world around them, but it is not a requirement for atheism nor is atheism a requirement for science.

For me, your excitement over teaching is admirable as my goal is to become a professor at a university. So I admire a desire to educate, but at the same time I disagree with what you are teaching (irregardless of why). To me it would be the equivalent of teaching astrology, palm reading, alchemy, or cryptozoology. Sure you are teaching something, but what you are teaching holds no real-world value to me (except as I have stated before that I would be interested to see what you are teaching because I would love to know more about how religious people interpret and teach religion). I just plain think churches in the US are absurd. I despise megachurches and hate the fact that churches are tax exempt. I could understand them being tax exempt if they provided secular services to the community in which they inhabit, but most do not. Most abuse their tax status and if they provide other services (like caring for the homeless) they do so with strings attached (or posters hanging up endorsing a particular candidate near their voting booths).


On the other topic of post-baby sex, our doctor made us wait 6 weeks I think. Is your daughter already approaching that in 2 weeks? Man time is flying by. My wife gave birth naturally, so I am sure that contributes to the recovery time-frame. How did your wife give birth?

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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